The Uncanny Toy Store: Demonic Children and Possessed Dolls

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Are you ready to taste the demon toast? Hey, welcome to Demon Toast. I'm King Loki. This is the podcast for horrific and gothic literature and the awesome people behind it. With me are my hosts, Adrian Amiro, Erica and Jack. Say hi to the nice people. Or don't, buddy. Hello. So tonight's episode is called the Uncanny Toy Store. Demonic Children and Possessed Dolls. What do we think about Demonic Children and Possessed Dolls? [00:00:39] Speaker B: They're really fun. [00:00:40] Speaker A: Oh, yeah? [00:00:42] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:00:43] Speaker A: Okay. [00:00:44] Speaker C: As a whole, probably. I think the general basis is they're kind of creepy, but I also think they're fun. [00:00:55] Speaker D: Be honest. Me personally, I'd rather have possessed dolls in my house than demonic children. Because, you know, demonic children can move a lot faster. Typically. But, you know, I'll take either. [00:01:10] Speaker A: That's true. [00:01:11] Speaker B: I think at different times I have both. [00:01:14] Speaker A: Wow. Yeah. I mean, I'm hoping that odorous doll behind me doesn't, you know, doesn't decide to start moving. You know, I'm pretty contemptuous towards him, you know, I don't respect him, so. [00:01:25] Speaker B: Alright. [00:01:25] Speaker A: Yeah. So, I mean, the Exorcist, the Omen, Rosemary's Baby, Children of the Damned, you know, those are all stories about demonic children. They abound all throughout horror literature, all throughout movies. What is it about that trope that captivates the imagination? Why do we continue to conceive and tell those stories? It's a question worth asking. Themes and trends die out. They fade from the pop culture landscape as society moves past them. You know, Terrifier three, it's killed every other movie this year. Right. But despite that, the Slasher is a RELIC of the 70s to the 90s. I mean, it's not really a thing anymore. Not really, you know, most of the ones. Well, I mean. Do you disagree, Adrian? [00:02:06] Speaker B: I mean, I think slashers have made a comeback with things like a violent nature, which is also super popular. And you know, the Scream franchise has like reinvented itself and people are super into that too. [00:02:20] Speaker A: That you're not wrong. I would say. I would. I would push back and say that like the modern movies we do get are largely sequels or remakes of those ancient dinosaurs. And in a violent way is kind of like genre parody. But I don't know. Have you guys seen In a Violent Way? I haven't yet, no. [00:02:40] Speaker B: It's bloody. Yeah, it was interesting. [00:02:44] Speaker A: It's worth a watch. [00:02:46] Speaker C: It certainly sounds violent. [00:02:49] Speaker B: Yes. [00:02:50] Speaker A: It's in the title, but yeah. No, I mean, like, you know, aside from these things, like the Scream series, putting out a new entry every five years or so. Or, I don't know, wrong turn releasing a remake every other year. Yeah, it's largely dead. And, you know, westerns are dead, too. Lots of subgenres are dead. Why does the subgenre of killer children and killer dolls for that matter, still persist? I think that's a fair question too. Because our killer doll movies, like Child's Play and the popular Megan movie with, you know, three for an E, Is that part of the same creative strain as, like, the Omen or Children of the Damned? Right, so that's the question we'll be addressing tonight. There's definitely nothing more important in the world to discuss right now. You know, we haven't had a devastating election or anything. No slow descent into theocracy, no wannabe dictators getting elected by the American people. You know, just books about Satan's kids and potty mouth dolls. [00:03:54] Speaker B: Sounds way more safe. [00:03:55] Speaker D: I mean, do you think Satan pays. [00:03:57] Speaker A: Child support to Damien? Probably not. I mean, he. Nah, he. He gives him. Well, I feel like he gives him daycare. I mean, you know, he has. He has creepy nannies and like, giant. [00:04:12] Speaker B: Black dogs and crazy weird cultists looking after him and stuff like that. So in some sort of way, he's paying somebody to do something. He's definitely taking care of the kid in some way. [00:04:27] Speaker A: He's a busy man. I mean, what do you want? [00:04:30] Speaker B: Is he a man? [00:04:33] Speaker A: Well, I mean, Satan's my. [00:04:36] Speaker D: He him wife, actually love her. [00:04:39] Speaker B: Except from Supernatural. [00:04:45] Speaker A: Well, anyway, I believe the Cornerstone Understanding these two types of movies and books, I.e. demonic children and possessed dolls is the concept that everyone's favorite psychoanalyst Sigmund Freud outlines in his essay the Uncanny. If you've heard the term uncanny valley in regards to robot receptionists or bad cgi, we're talking about the same thing. The idea is that we feel a latent sense of fear or revulsion towards things that we have a familiarity with that act in a way in which they should not. Like a sweet little girl who jams a crucifix into her vagina and screams, fuck me, Jesus. Which happens in the Exorcist or the Pinocchio doll from Pinocchio's Revenge. True classic. You know Pinocchio's Revenge. Highly recommend it. [00:05:26] Speaker B: That movie's so bad. That movie's so bad. [00:05:31] Speaker C: I need to know all about this now. I have yet to hear about that. [00:05:37] Speaker A: Pinocchio's Revenge is awesome. It's about a killer Pinocchio doll. It's not like it's not an adaptation of Pinocchio it's just the. Like a little kid gets a Pinocchio doll that's possessed by a killer and it walks around and kills people with an ax. [00:05:49] Speaker D: It's Wooden Chucky. [00:05:52] Speaker C: That does sound phenomenal. That reminds me of the Pinocchio animations that had gone viral last year that were more aligned with like the older folk tales instead of like the PG kind of kid friendly stuff we have now. And Pinocchio, I was not expecting him to be so chill with just smashing his little grasshopper friend with a mallet as easily as needed. [00:06:22] Speaker A: That's the first thing he does in the book. [00:06:23] Speaker C: Killing. Yeah. [00:06:26] Speaker B: And always let your conscience be your guide. [00:06:30] Speaker D: Wow, mash. [00:06:32] Speaker A: That's the Walt Disney. No, no, no. The actual novel is brilliant. You know, it was written at a very different time. And Pinocchio kills Jiminy Cricket and is haunted by his ghost. He's. He's almost killed and hanged by the Fox and the Hound. I mean, that's how that story ends. And he just keeps getting second chances. I mean, he's an unrepentant little jerk off until the very end, you know. [00:06:53] Speaker C: Interesting to see the differences between what we like grow up with versus what was initially intended for some of these forms of media. [00:07:02] Speaker A: Yeah, it's fascinating, isn't it? It was an Italian novel. So, you know, I mean, Catholicism being what it is, you know, it's gonna lead to a lot of corporal punishment. And I mean, that's essentially what the book is. Pinocchio does bad things, he's horrifically punished. He proceeds to not learn his lesson and is horrifically punished again and again and again. And the wages of sin lead him to the hell that is. It's paradise island in the, in the Disney movie, but I think it's just called Trap for Blockheads in the book. And ultimately he winds up in the belly of the dogfish as his final catabasis, where he meets his dad and, you know, turns. Turns over a new leaf, you know, but yeah, no, no, Pinocchio's revenge is awesome. And in some ways it's closer to the book because Pinocchio is a murderous little freak. But yeah, no, while the image or idea might be unsettling on its own, there's a special shock or revulsion, depending on who you are, that comes from seeing Reigen projectile vomit on her psychiatrist or hearing Chucky call Andy's mom a. [00:08:09] Speaker D: Or seeing Chucky projectile vomit onto that kid's dad. We can combine both of those. [00:08:17] Speaker A: That's true. [00:08:18] Speaker C: Precisely. Two birds, one stone. [00:08:21] Speaker A: He Turns his head around a lot. [00:08:23] Speaker B: Yes. Total exercise style. [00:08:27] Speaker D: That wasn't relevant. I'm sorry. [00:08:31] Speaker A: Totally relevant. No, Chucky's great. Chucky has everything. [00:08:34] Speaker D: Board connections. [00:08:36] Speaker A: You gotta understand, Chucky is a lot like Transformers. Like Transformers and Chucky, they both have everything. Like Queer Theory, you know, Critical Race Theory. It's all there. Like, you can probably critique commercialism, especially in the first movie with, you know, all the good Guy cartoons, the boxes, the accessories in the documentary. [00:08:58] Speaker B: That's totally what they were. Like the guy that wrote the original script, Don Mancini, who did all of them later on, that was what he intended, was it was supposed to be. [00:09:08] Speaker A: About the evils of advertising, which we will get to. Yeah. Is anything more uncanny than the horrors of capitalism? [00:09:18] Speaker C: Very few things, if any. [00:09:20] Speaker A: Very few things. Yeah, we're in a very boring dystopia. We should probably introduce the uncanny, though. So in his essay, which was published in 1919 here. Fairly sure that's correct. I'll read some excerpts from it in a bit. But Freud, essentially, he distinguishes between two kinds of the uncanny, right? And the word he uses is unheimlich, which means unhomely. And he goes into the etymology of this awesome German word. He goes pretty deep into it. But the two examples that he gives, they're. They're the types that come from repressed complexes, which being Freud, is mostly about castration. You know, most people, in his mind, most people are afraid of castration. And women feel like they're already castrated. So they're just upset that they don't have, you know, a wonderful male penis. [00:10:10] Speaker D: This was my experience. [00:10:21] Speaker A: And the second type comes from primitive superstitions, most of which we leave behind in childhood. So that's largely what we're gonna. We're gonna be dealing with. Although I think with our killer doll movies, we do get a lot of decapitations. We get a lot of arms cut off and probably some castration. I don't think Chucky's ever castrated anyone, although he's made jokes about it. [00:10:40] Speaker D: He should. [00:10:41] Speaker A: He should. He really should. [00:10:43] Speaker B: That's really weird that he hasn't actually done that. [00:10:46] Speaker A: In Seed of Chucky, there's a part where Glenn or Glenda, depending on where you are, they pull their pants down and they're like. Cuz Chucky. [00:10:54] Speaker B: And there's nothing. There's nothing there. [00:10:58] Speaker A: Yeah. Tiffany's like, no, she's a girl. And Chucky's like, oh, it's bullshit, it's a boy. And people, they pull their pants down and there's Nothing there. It's pretty great. And yeah, like, Don Mancini was intentionally doing that because, you know, he was friends with trans people. He was friends with cross dressers, he was friends with drag queens and stuff. And that kind of visibility. I mean, when did that movie come out, 2006 or something? [00:11:25] Speaker B: Yeah, because the Bride of Chucky came out in, like, 2005. [00:11:30] Speaker A: Okay. [00:11:31] Speaker B: I could be. [00:11:32] Speaker A: No, you're probably right. Seed wasn't too far after. It didn't do very well. But regardless, they were kind of on fire with that movie. And I really hate saying this, but, you know, it was ahead of its time in many ways. It's. I hate saying that because I feel like we're still struggling to have people, trans people, be accepted into the mainstream. Like, the pushback is seemingly eternal. [00:11:55] Speaker B: I feel like that it makes it still relevant, like the movie still matters now, just like it did. [00:12:05] Speaker C: I agree wholeheartedly. [00:12:11] Speaker D: That that scene where in the TV show where Chucky's like, hey, I've got a queer kid. I'm not a monster, that's still. That's a scene that I see a lot on various social medias because it. It means a lot to trans kids, especially where it's like, ah, yeah, even. [00:12:35] Speaker A: Could be accepting Chucky's many things, but he's not a transphobe. [00:12:40] Speaker C: I think having that level of visibility for those marginalized communities is always so meaningful and always holds a little bit of relevancy because there's going to be struggles regardless whether they are, like, internal or external. And just seeing that people, like, see and hear and value you. Always a great feeling. Don Mancini is a real one. And I was going to mention that scene that Jack had brought up for that very purpose. [00:13:11] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, it's a great scene. And it's. It's. It's those gentle, subtle touches that really make it. You know, I think it's. No, it's Bride of Chucky where the main character, I don't think he ever comes out of the closet, but he does. [00:13:24] Speaker B: They talk about his boyfriend. [00:13:26] Speaker A: Oh, they do. I don't. [00:13:27] Speaker B: They do. I rewatched it last night. [00:13:29] Speaker A: Okay. [00:13:30] Speaker B: And he talks about how he was in love with this dude like a summer before and that it broke his heart, but he still knew what true love was. [00:13:38] Speaker A: Okay. [00:13:39] Speaker B: Before he gets hit by the truck. You know, it's fine. [00:13:43] Speaker A: If Donovan City wasn't gay, I would say it was problematic, and I think it still is problematic. But it's one of those things. It's like, okay, you know, I think. [00:13:52] Speaker B: Don Mancini wanted so much to show something there and, like, have something like that in films, because it wasn't really accepted or shown that he just, like, pushed it. He was just like, we're doing this. This is it. Like, Game Over, Man. And then he went on to do Seed and, like, pushed it even further and critically, it was a total flop, but it was brilliant. And it still holds up. Like, it still holds up. [00:14:23] Speaker A: No, it's really funny satire. But the thing is, is that I think that for your average normie, the series is veering into the era of irony and self parody. And, like, you know, that's above a lot of people's heads, I think, you know. [00:14:40] Speaker B: Well, in Seat of Chucky, he's totally parodying, like, the entire Hollywood industry, like, in so many different layers. And having worked with, like, some crazy people and done some crazy things and been to Hollywood and done insane. Like, he's totally dead on. Like, it's hilarious. [00:15:04] Speaker A: Yeah, I. Like, in the documentary, he says something like, oh, we were trying to parody normal people. And they hard cut to one of the editors going, maybe the. Maybe the Godfather or something. Normal people. Yeah. [00:15:16] Speaker C: I feel like there's always been a little bit of self awareness and parody to Don Mancini's work, though, especially after the first Child's Play. I think that one holds the most, like, serious tone for me. Before the newer releases have come out, like Cult and everything, but with, like, Bride and Seed, especially those just scream campy. We know that we're being a little out there in Mimi, but he runs with it in a way that's, like, mindful and attentive to both the story and what the audience is wanting. And I think we're seeing that a little more in that return to that more serious note with the newer movies. Like, not everybody's feeling that campy vibe anymore. [00:16:09] Speaker A: Yeah, Cult was a. Cult was a return to roots. And, you know, the show for sure, like, has a lot of those elements. And I think the show is kind of crazy and how Freudian it is because, you know, in season two, you have this wacky nun who thinks she sees Jesus everywhere. And she literally thinks that the good guy doll is Jesus. Like, she just thinks Jesus looks like Jesus. So when Chucky starts talking and moving, she's like, the Lord is risen. And Chucky rolls with it because it's great. It. You know, that's so funny. Yeah. But it's in the middle of this, like, dark drama where our main characters are stuck in this, like, creepy Catholic, like, Boarding school and, like, they're trying to figure out Chucky's plan. And there's a lot of drama and gay panic and horrible things going on. And, yeah, he's a smart guy, but I want to get through fucking Freud. Freud sucks. I'm just going to say it. [00:17:10] Speaker B: It's so bad. [00:17:12] Speaker A: So bad. It's. It's. He's the kind of philosopher that people engage with, and they engage kind of at a surface level because frankly, he goes to some pretty weird places. So let's just do this. The first type, right, is about repressed complexes, right? It's kind of a wide classification and I don't want to get lost talking about genitals and penis envy, which always happens when you mention Freud's name, you know, so basically, just a quick description, the severing of limbs, the puncturing of eyes, all those forms of horror are the first form of the uncanny. He says it's all connected to the fear of castration, root of all evil. For Freud, right, That's an axiom that he just asserts for some unknown reason, for, you know, for all the women listening, Carl Jung built on his work by adding the Electra complex, where the female, you know, that's the female gendered counterpart to the Oedipus complex, which, as mentioned before, fear of castration. It's the same thing, except that women feel they're already castrated, they resent not having a dick for some reason, and they blame their mothers. Not sexist or weird, you know, we're all good anyway. The examples Freud provides for the second and more relevant type of the uncanny and the one we're really going to be engaging with, are a number that repeats again and again, right? Or an inanimate object that makes you suspect that it's actually alive. You walk in, the doll's laying on its side, you pick it up, you go back out, it's on the floor again. What's happening? That's kind of creepy, right? Imagine you see the number 45 on your lottery ticket. Then you get on a train and, oh, there's the number 45 again. And then you see, you might see Graffiti that says 45. You know, your, you know, your monkey cranium starts thinking, whoa, man, there's a mess. The universe is sending me a message. It's uncanny. It's weird. Our brains don't like it. The other example he gives is that of an automaton or a dead body or even a doll that can move or talk. Baby alive, Furby even tickle me Elmo are all animatronic toys that people describe as creepy of you. Have a furby. You guys are kind of young, but. [00:19:12] Speaker B: I totally had a furby back. [00:19:13] Speaker C: Have one. [00:19:16] Speaker A: Okay. I mean, I made. You made one? [00:19:20] Speaker D: Yeah, it's at my mom's house, unfortunately. But I wanted a furby, so I made one out of clay and people were like, oh, what kind of furby is that? Wow. And I'm like, you can't got get one. They're like, why? I'm like, it's not for you. [00:19:38] Speaker B: It's not for you, Jack. [00:19:39] Speaker C: You might ever seen those long furbies. [00:19:43] Speaker D: Yeah, I love long furby. [00:19:45] Speaker A: You have to make them. Yeah. [00:19:47] Speaker B: I have a furby. [00:19:52] Speaker A: That's horrifying. It's scarier than anything behind me. Wow. [00:19:56] Speaker D: I have my clown. [00:19:59] Speaker B: I mean, poltergeist all the way. [00:20:04] Speaker D: I thought about including him. [00:20:06] Speaker A: You should. [00:20:07] Speaker B: You should. [00:20:08] Speaker A: Oh, he's horrible. [00:20:10] Speaker D: He can sit up here for the rest of the show. [00:20:15] Speaker B: I love it. [00:20:17] Speaker C: Mascot for the episode. [00:20:19] Speaker A: I have a lot of Furbies. I have one with buttons for eyes that someone made someone. Someone on Tumblr sold it to me. I have a gremlin. I have the gremlins. Furby. It. It. It doesn't quote the movie at all, but it looks like Gizmo. It has little arms. It says hubba hubba a lot. I think it's supposed to be flirting. I don't know. But. Yeah, no, no, that's. I never thought Furby was creepy, but I'm a weird fuck, so everyone I know is like, oh, Furby was scary. I couldn't turn it off. And I. I think it just. It's part of that uncanny thing because it looks like a doll, but it moves, it talks. It seems to have a mind of its own. And because you can't turn it off, you really have no power over it. [00:20:56] Speaker B: I think. Well, I think a lot of it is, like, things that appear like human or almost human or have some kind of, like, human quality to them, but it's, like, unnatural. [00:21:09] Speaker D: I did some reading into this because I wasn't really into the circumcision thing. So I wanted to figure out scientifically, and I couldn't find any really decent articles that were getting into what I was thinking. So probably that means I'm wrong. But I think there's an interesting. There's an interesting correlation between dead bodies and the uncanny valley, because seeing a dead body is traumatic to a human being. I know from experience. I went to that dead body museum and I was like, oh, I'm into true crime. I can handle seeing pictures of a dead body. And you know what? It actually wasn't cool. It was incredibly disturbing. And there is a certain kind of trauma, grief trauma, I believe, where it's not even that you. It's a dead person. That, you know, just seeing a dead body and realizing that was a person once, it elicits a traumatic response. As humans, we don't like dead people. Probably you could look into evolutionarily. Is it super awesome to hang around dead bodies? Not really for your health. That's not great for you. So I just wonder that. And unnatural behaviors is something that a lot of people find uncanny. And I will always find the way to direct the conversation to rabies, because rabies scares me so bad. But, you know, from an evolutionary standpoint, those unnatural behaviors, those strange, unpredictable behaviors that could be a sign of immediate danger. So if you expect a dead thing to stay still and then it gets up and it starts coming towards you, that's not good. Because if you thought it was dead, it's probably sick. And it's gonna get you and you're gonna get rabies and explode. [00:23:25] Speaker C: I like that rabies explanation. I had never really considered something like that before, so I think that was a really great way to explain that. I am terrified of getting rabies and exploding now. [00:23:39] Speaker B: Yeah, you don't actually explode with rabies, but it's really bad. [00:23:42] Speaker D: Explode every time with rabies. [00:23:48] Speaker C: Just like Minecraft, like, spontaneously combust. Now, if I get bitten, like, by a raccoon or something. [00:23:55] Speaker A: Well, I live in Philly, so, you know, if I see any dead bodies, I will be sure to not go near them. I do think you're on the money, Jack, because Freud does talk about lifeless bodies. Dead bodies being described as uncanny. It's an example he gives. And whereas, like, you know, he's gonna tie it into, like, our fear of, like, I don't know, the dead rising or whatever. I think that Occam's Razor would go more in your category, Jack. You know, like, yeah, this is. This is probably something that we picked up from generations of eating dead. Eating roadkill. Well, not roadkill, but, you know, eating dead bodies we found and, yeah, fucking dying from them. So, you know, those who kept doing it died, and those who didn't, you know, passed on whatever. Whatever brain cell was telling them not to do that. Right. So moving along, though, Freud suggests that all these talking toys, all these, you know, these Furby dolls and so on, their uncanny nature stems from our childhood tendency to treat stuffed animals and action figures as if they're alive in some sense. Right? We talked to our dolls, included them in imaginary adventures and imagined. They even had feelings and rich lives of their own. As cynical adults exhausted by life, we for the most part no longer feel this way. You know, I. Speaking for myself, of course we know that our stuffed animals and Barbie dolls are just plastic and plush faux fur, plastic eyes, no intelligence or capacity for expression beyond their lifeless exteriors. Except for my Frankenstein themed Transformer Frankentron. He's over there. And my Bowie Barbie right behind me. You know, they have feelings and are real people and are valuable and special. [00:25:37] Speaker D: You're hurting my clown. [00:25:40] Speaker A: You know he's probably gonna appear. [00:25:42] Speaker D: Look at his heartbroken expression. [00:25:46] Speaker B: I think that doll is gorgeous. [00:25:54] Speaker A: I feel like every mirror I'm not looking in, he's peeking, he's peering out of. You know, I feel like every time, every time a knife goes missing in my house, he'll be holding it right behind me, you know, so that's his job. [00:26:06] Speaker D: He gets paid for that. [00:26:07] Speaker A: Thanks Jack. Thanks Jack. You're a good friend. So the point is that having outgrown such childlike beliefs, such as Jack's killer clown doll following me around the house, when we hear Furby chanting dance boogie, bouncing up and down, his long eyelashes fluttering, we know that Furby is just an unsophisticated robotic toy going through pre programmed motions, his servos and motors screeching louder than his shrill pre recorded elfsong voice. So why is he creepy if we know he's a cheap battery powered doll? Because according to Dr. Freud, on some primal repressed level, we know dolls aren't alive and so should not move or speak. These horrible things we've created, however, violate our implicit expectations and for many people over the age of seven can be described most distinctly as uncanny. Similarly, the Aktroid dolls of Japan, which look like young attractive girls and currently serve mostly as receptionists, are eerie and off putting, unable to emote properly or fool customers that they are alive. Interestingly enough, I don't know if you guys have seen it, but most of the robots I've seen in like the real world are non human designed. You know, they look like things on wheels. Have you seen them? Like sweeping supermarkets? [00:27:25] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:27:27] Speaker C: When I was in college we had these things called kiwibots that would roll around campus and they were basically just little boxes on wheels that different restaurants nearby or on campus would use to deliver food to students in classes. And they had screens on the front with little Faces to emote. And that was cute, but I always had that feeling of this is a little unsettling. I don't think I want this cute. Yes, but tiny thing on wheels to bring me my food when I could have walked five minutes to go get it. [00:28:05] Speaker A: Mm. Yeah, but I feel like making it a box on wheels makes it. It comes off as an appliance, right? I mean, like, would you feel the same way if it. If it had a little. A little head and a little face and was like, here's your food, Erica. [00:28:19] Speaker C: I feel significantly worse if it was like that. [00:28:23] Speaker A: There you go. [00:28:24] Speaker B: Where's Arnold Schwarzenegger? That's all I'm gonna say, right? It's happening. [00:28:30] Speaker C: I will say though, the lil faces it had were like the 2013 Tumblr emotes. So that was cute and funny. I'll take that over a creepy human face on wheels any day. [00:28:43] Speaker A: Yeah, fair enough. The human brain is really good at picking up on patterns when things are off. Even least observers of observant of us just know. So those are the two examples, right? Recurring numbers, moving of inanimate objects. They're explained as being uncanny because they confirm beliefs that were written off. Our dolls are alive. The universe is sending me a message. Oh, God, that doesn't happen. Oh, God, it just did. Right? You know, most of us know better than to ascribe too much importance to coincidence. I mean, obviously, you know, there are people who are into synchronicity and positive attraction, so no shade, Seriously. But generally speaking, we've moved past that. And we're not expecting Furby or Robosapien. I probably just dated myself by mentioning that. I don't know what the kids play with anymore. [00:29:34] Speaker D: Um, never heard of Robosapien. [00:29:39] Speaker A: Neither have I. Yeah, I think that was the hottest toy of like 2011. Adrian, do you remember Robosapien? [00:29:47] Speaker B: I'm older than all of you people. That's all I'm going to say. [00:29:51] Speaker A: I know, I know. I'm just saying. I'm just saying. [00:29:55] Speaker B: Yes, I remember Robosapien. [00:29:58] Speaker A: Thank you. You're welcome. [00:30:00] Speaker D: Oh my gosh. Yes, I do remember Robo Sapien. [00:30:02] Speaker C: So we didn't have things like that for Christmas. I got clothes. [00:30:06] Speaker A: I mean, I didn't get him either. I just knew I knew about him, you know? But yeah, we're not expecting Furby or Robosapien or Roboraptor, whatever the hell kids are playing with nowadays to go all small soldiers on our asses. Right? But your brain does, you know, your brain Does. By the way, Joe Dante, I'm pretty sure, directed Small Soldiers. Awesome. Awesome. Probably uncanny too, you know, just saying, whether your intellect goes there or not, in Freudian terms, your ID is totally into it and is hitting the panic button while your super ego is rolling its heavy lidded eyes, while your ego looks on from one to the other and just shrugs because, you know, it's all, it's all stupid in the end. I mean, you know, you're just gonna change the channel. Which brings me to the 1971 novel by William Peter Blatty in its brilliant 73 film adaptation, the Exorcist. The Exorcist, the eternal classic. You know, we're gonna talk about a lot of bad movies tonight, but the Exorcist is not one of the one. It's a fucking masterpiece. It's brilliant. And even as someone who like rolls his eyes at most, like exorcism movies, you know, because it's all Catholic, not. [00:31:14] Speaker B: Gnarishkeit, it's become Catholic propaganda in some ways. [00:31:19] Speaker A: Yeah, like if you watch the Devil Inside, it's really just an anti abortion movie. And it's pretty funny actually. [00:31:24] Speaker B: You know, the Pope's Exorcist tried to like say that the only reason that priests were doing terrible things to children and stuff is because they were possessed by demons. Because a demon, like, they were literally just trying to write it off, like, oh, it was the demons, it wasn't us. Ruined the whole movie. [00:31:45] Speaker A: Bring me the Priest. It was a good comedy, you know, I thought it was delightful. But yeah, getting back to the Exorcist, the granddaddy of all these movies, there's a lot to say about the Exorcist. Right? You know, I'm just gonna briefly do a recap of it for those of you who haven't read it or seen it. I mean, most Exorcist movies do rip off the basic structure of it and they never quite replicate what makes it work. Our protagonist, Chris McNeil is a movie star who's hoping to move into directing. Divorced, the light of her life is, at first glance, anyway, her daughter Regan. Early on in the book, Chris remembers another child that she had a son whom she watched die, and she resolved never to grow as close to another child, establishing that she keeps a degree of emotional distance from her daughter that is, even as a suggestion, fairly surprising and off putting. Despite her affection and devotion to Regan, Regan plays with the Ouija board licensed by Hasbro, you know, the one and only, making friends with an entity she names Captain Howdy. Spoilers for a 43 year old book, by the way. Read it anyway. She soon begins to exhibit bizarre behavior, urinating in front of Kris guests, telling one of them the day of his death, and then killing one of her mom's friends who is the director of the movie she's starring in. Needless to say, the Exorcist is a watershed moment for horror fiction, with the book and the movie inspiring countless imitators and derivative works. Art is a conversation. This isn't an indictment, just an observation, really. Regan's taunting of the priests who come to cast out her demons are the stuff of legends, despite the efforts of Schlock, like the Pope's Exorcist, which we just referenced. It's awesome. Schlock. I love it. [00:33:34] Speaker B: It was really pretty, but it was terrible. [00:33:37] Speaker A: It's funny as fuck. I love that they make the little kid talk with this deep voice. It's. It's epic. It's epic. Who played, who played the exorcist, by the way? [00:33:46] Speaker B: Russell Crowe. [00:33:47] Speaker A: His. His accent was amazing. It was so funny. [00:33:50] Speaker B: It was something. [00:33:52] Speaker A: It was, it was something. But yeah, all those things, all those things they make, they don't come close to even touching like what this movie does, you know, even as like an outsider. I've never been a Christian of any sort, you know, but taking, taking the movie on its terms, it's really great when you accept the internal logic of it. Right. Recent Exorcist stuff like, I mean, the Exorcist series, they treat priests as like Jedis or something. They have the power to cast out demons. This movie doesn't do that. Both priests die doing the exorcism. They're pretty ineffective, you know, I mean, I guess the demon gets cast out, but he takes the one priest to hell with him. So. But anyway, the novel was largely written as an indictment of the sexual revolution and the secularization of mainstream society. Blatty was a hardcore Catholic. And the world was nevertheless received by a world disgusted by the horrors of the Vietnam War. Those not turned away from religion by its inherent logical, historical and rational problems have only to look towards the very Catholic Church's treatment of its pedophile priest scandal to feel an inherent disgust. All the same, Blatty was frustrated when people's favorite quotes from the movie were Reagan's declaration to Father Karras that his mother sucks cocks in hell, end quote, as well as her description of herself as the piglet and her screams of me, Jesus, fuck me. [00:35:23] Speaker B: I mean, this also happened like part of the reason it was so controversial was because it was during the video nasty era where stuff was, like, super censored. So it had to have, like, a moral at the end of the story. So even though the priests totally lost, they, like, sacrificed themselves, which is totally catholic, and saved the little girl. You know what I mean? But that's how they were able to, like, market that movie and get it out. [00:35:49] Speaker A: That's true. [00:35:51] Speaker C: I think the point that you had made about the difference in the Exorcist and, like, more modern exorcism movies that we see nowadays and, like, the realism behind it might also contribute pretty heavily to that uncanny feeling, because the humanity in, like, the priests and them having that mortality feels so much more real and like, oh, this isn't supposed to be how things are. Than them just being able to cast out demons effortlessly, flawly, flawlessly. I can English. Like, seeing that happen ushers forth this feeling of like, oh, no, this is just wrong. Like, for me, at least. [00:36:43] Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. I do think that. I do think that it's also just the choice of the little girl, too. I mean, when you see Reagan, she's very fresh faced, she's very sweet, she's very pretty. And when she be. When she morphs into, you know, Pazuzu, as it were, and start saying horrific things, it's shocking. That's why it's not so much that people are pervy. I mean, yeah, they are. But I think it's more so that it's very shocking to hear a little girl talk like that and express these things and do these things. And I think that it's uncanny at its core. You know, I think it's. It's very startling just. Just on a. There are movies like Brightburn. Brightburn doesn't do anything cool. It's just. It's Superman, but he's. He's a slasher villain. Right. But it's banking really hard on the fact that you're gonna be horrified by a little boy coming up behind people and breaking their necks, you know? [00:37:40] Speaker C: Yeah, most definitely. [00:37:43] Speaker B: You're not wrong. I thought the third exorcist movie was really good too, and it didn't have children in it, but it still had that uncanny feeling because, like, once again, you know, you have this priest that you actually like, and he's pretty worldly and he's funny, and of course, he gets killed, and they use the priest from the first one who, you know, has been in hell, and they're using him to, like, commit these murders. And it's Unnatural and creepy. [00:38:16] Speaker A: Sure. [00:38:17] Speaker B: And. [00:38:18] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. So, you know, the Exorcist is a reactionary book that scolds a woman for pursuing a career and leaving her husband. And I think it's clear that it persists less on those terms. Right. Like the Blatty's attempt to scare people back into church doesn't quite. It doesn't quite hit people that way. It's more the enduring fascination. We have the central motif of Reagan. But is she really compromised? Is she really, you know, like. Is she really, like a fallen girl? Right. [00:38:51] Speaker D: If only we had an essay to reference. [00:38:53] Speaker A: If only I had an essay to draw a very nice quote from. Written By Brian Riley, Dr. Brian Riley, that is, professor at Anne Arundel Community College. Revisiting the Exorcist the forbidden pleasures of resistant reader. Most scholarly work on the Exorcist has focused in one way or another on what could be called, in Freudian terms, the return of the repressed, suggesting, in short, that what is most interesting and most disturbing about the story is the way it taps into real world fears and anxieties of its audience members, playing them out in exaggerated and horrific ways. One perhaps obvious example is the anxiety that every parent experiences at some point over a sick child, the terror and helplessness one feels when no medicine or remedy will alleviate the child's suffering. And furthermore, later on in the article, he points out, it's notable that when Regan becomes violent, although she does strike her mother at one point, her victims are mostly men in positions of authority, or at least potential authority. She spits in the face of internist Dr. Klein and strikes him as he attempts to examine her. She squeezes the testicles of a neuropsychiatrist who hypnotizes her. And she murders film director Burke Dennings, whom she suspects incorrectly of being Chris's love interest and hence a potential stepfather. Moreover, both Father Merrin and Father Karras are killed during the attempted exorcism. While Regan's superior physical strength, deep voice, explicit language, and defiance of authority are clearly presented at the manifest level as threats to be feared, they may at the same time be experienced as somewhat liberating. If read as a symbolic representation of rebellion against repressive institutions, responses will vary according to readerly needs. Readers, viewers who align themselves, consciously or not, with traditional institutions such as the conventional family and the Church might take the most pleasure in seeing this transgressive behavior squelched and Regan safely return to the stat the status of demure, obedient little girl. And this is no doubt what Blatty intends. Near the end of both the novel and the book, Regan is sad to have no recollection of her ordeal. She spontaneously kisses Father Dyer upon noticing his Roman collar, as if to express her gratitude to the Church for curing her. But others might again, consciously or not, take the most pleasure in watching the possessed Regan lash out against any and all forms of repression and orthodoxy. I suspect that for many of us, it's both. Since our desires, our readerly needs, are complex. The article itself pushes back a little bit against its own women's lib take. But I thought it was pretty. I thought it was pretty poignant. It was poignant enough to quote. [00:41:33] Speaker C: You know, I thought that was a really interesting article to share because just the way that those scenes were presented isn't necessarily something that I had considered as, like, an act of rebellion, so to say. So that was an interesting lens to look at things through and also gives that feeling of the uncanny an additional layer because there's, like, a reason behind the behavior that also, like, justifies the uncomfortableness and makes it hold more meaning. Almost like there's a reason that it's this way. [00:42:15] Speaker A: Right. And I mean, like, the thing is, like, looking at it, you do somewhat veer into the death of the author territory. But, I mean, art is a cultural artifact at the end of the day. And just like the gay community reading Frodo and Sam's relationship as something affirming, there's no reason why you can't look at Reagan and go, yeah, vomit on that priest. He deserves it, you know? [00:42:38] Speaker D: Yeah, that's a good line. [00:42:43] Speaker C: Vomit on that priest. That's gonna be my vocal stim for the next month and a half. [00:42:49] Speaker D: So I haven't seen the movie. I'll be honest. I'm just not interested in seeing that kind of sexuality. It's not my thing, and I don't want to look at it. So I'm not. But I did. I did watch my analysis videos and stuff, and I think the essay's interpretation gives it a lot of meaning. And I think that's what makes a good horror story in general. It's not that scary if it's just, ah, there was the spooky man. The spooky man needs to represent something in order for it to be a good horror story. And Reagan's actions representing something make it her more compelling as a possessed character. I don't think I worded that quite right. Use your mind to make me sound intelligent. [00:43:48] Speaker B: Thank you. [00:43:50] Speaker D: The car was agreeing with me. [00:43:52] Speaker B: Yes, it was. Honking. Heck, yes. [00:43:56] Speaker A: Ira Levin's Rosemary's Baby is a very different beast, by the way. So written by one of my people. Written by a Jew. So maybe that has something to do with it. It similarly uses the domestic paradigm and arguably the nucleus of the nuclear family. The baby. Capital. The baby. [00:44:17] Speaker D: You know, capital baby. [00:44:19] Speaker A: The baby. The damn baby. [00:44:22] Speaker B: Yes, the damned baby. [00:44:27] Speaker A: As its theater and prop of horror, the novel and accompanying movie directed by famous rapist Roman Polanski. Lest we forget, we're not brushing that under the rug here. Yeah, we do. You know, he's a great director, but that guy. [00:44:42] Speaker B: Yeah, agreed, 100%. [00:44:44] Speaker D: Not literally, no. [00:44:46] Speaker B: Ew, gross. [00:44:49] Speaker A: Yes, yes. They give us Rosemary, played by Mia Farrow in the movie and her husband, tellingly named Guy. Not a. Not a mistake. Moving into an adorable, historic and gorgeous apartment that in New York screams status and privilege. Were meant to envy their 1960s modern life. As Guy struggles to find acting jobs and Rosemary fulfills her role as a homemaker. She barely leaves that house, by the way. It's very, very, very, very. Not just, like, emblematic of. When was it written? The 60s? Yeah. Because the movie came out in 68. I think the book was 63 or 65. But it's very emblematic of the era and expectations on women. You know, she spends most of her time longing for the baby that Guy doesn't want to give her trouble. And the uncanny enter more subtly in this text. Their home life is eerily mundane, and I say eerily because nothing changes. It's very intentional, you know, with even their queer neighbors, elderly Minnie and Roman, coming off as eccentric old hippies or something, with their herbal remedies and doting over Rosemary, whom they just. They just fawn over after the young live. Excuse me. After the young woman living with them mysteriously kills herself one night, Rosemary dreams that she is carried off into their apartment by her husband, stripped naked while she sleeps, and sexually assaulted while her neighbors look on, chanting in Latin. The devil, in the film, anyway, is represented by shaggy, disembodied arms, the claws seizing Rosemary as he claims her. An uncanny image if ever there was one. [00:46:23] Speaker D: Just like that one scene in that Bigfoot show. [00:46:29] Speaker A: Was it mountain monsters? [00:46:31] Speaker D: Yeah, that's the one you were always talking about. [00:46:34] Speaker A: I love. I love mountain monsters. I'm a huge fan of that show. It's amazing. It's so great. [00:46:41] Speaker D: Bigfoot is the devil. [00:46:43] Speaker A: What? [00:46:44] Speaker C: I figured something out here on my 2024 bingo card. [00:46:52] Speaker A: Bigfoot is Satan. You know. You know, Bigfoot. I mean, I don't know if he's supposed to be Canadian, but there's guys on Mountain monsters are always finding Bigfoot. If he's an American, he could probably run for president. I'm just saying, I mean, probably do a better job. Be an upgrade. I mean, the American people seem to love shaggy monsters, so. I don't know. Ancient shaggy monsters. Oh, my God. Anyway, when the doctor. [00:47:15] Speaker D: Don't you have to have hair to be shaggy? [00:47:20] Speaker A: I mean. [00:47:21] Speaker B: I mean, we have special effects people now. And obviously the cheetah can wear a toupee, so, you know, enough. [00:47:31] Speaker A: Donald Trump is at least half chimpanzee. What else has hair like that? You know, Terrible. It's Donald Trump. I think it's. I think he's fair game. When the doctor her creepy neighbors recommend to her, convince her to ignore her friend's advice and trust only his and Minnie's unconventional herbal remedies, she begins to suspect that something is wrong, especially when she loses weight and begins to feel horrific pain in her abdomen. Not normal pain associated with pregnancy, which I'm sure Adrian could tell us all about. Yeah. Oh, where was I? When her suspicious male friend, Hutch, tries to meet with her to reveal what he discovered about her neighbors, she is. He is suddenly found in a coma. Before he can tell her anything, though, he manages to give her a book on all things witchcraft. Needless to say, Rosemary figures out that Roman is the son of a devil worshipper who was lynched outside her building after he supposedly conjured Satan. I don't know why you'd kill him for that. I mean, sounds pretty great. Tries to run to another doctor. She believes that her husband has promised her baby to Minnie and Roman for their nefarious purposes in return for the boost his acting career has abruptly gotten. [00:48:39] Speaker D: Not at all relevant. I think it's important to mention that Roman's dad, who conjured Satan, at least in the movie what he conjured. Or maybe in the novel, too, because I. I started reading the novel because I was trying to multitask. Anyways, the Satan he conjured was not impressive. It was like a ball of hair and, like, some nails. That's not an impressive Satan. [00:49:11] Speaker A: Oh, that wasn't in the book. That's interesting. Unless. Unless it was mentioned in passing. I don't know. [00:49:16] Speaker D: It is like this tiny nothing line from Hutch where he's like, oh, yeah, there was a Satanist, and he conjured, like, a ball of hair and said it was Satan. And that's what I chose to latch onto. [00:49:29] Speaker A: My thing with that is, like, when you look at, like, Hawthorne stories and stuff like that, it's always the devil capital, the devil. And, like, my assumption is always that Satan's kind of a busy guy and he sends his agents into the world and they're allowed to operate under the name of Satan or the devil because he's franchising. You know, that's. That's my working theory. [00:49:50] Speaker D: I'd hate to summon a racer head baby Satan. Of all the Satans to summon, you get a racer head baby Satan. [00:49:57] Speaker A: Yeah, that would suck. [00:49:58] Speaker C: I feel like that would be a very traumatizing experience. Experience. [00:50:02] Speaker A: Eraserhead baby. [00:50:04] Speaker B: That's a way to put it, Erica. [00:50:08] Speaker A: So have you guys seen apartment 7A, by the way? [00:50:12] Speaker B: Yes. [00:50:12] Speaker D: No, I need to, because I think. [00:50:15] Speaker A: The devil in that. Which is. It's a prequel to Rosemary's Baby. It's excellent. It's not really germane to what we're talking about because there's not a baby or a child or a killer doll in it. But I do feel like the devil is very uncanny in that movie. Adrian, what do you think? [00:50:31] Speaker B: I do. Also the whole, like, gaslighting portion of it. And like, the narcissistic behavior, like, the whole, like, what you're experiencing is in reality, like that, in and of itself, like changing someone's reality for whatever purposes is totally. Like, she thinks she's going crazy. Which is the same thing that happens to Rosemary. [00:50:54] Speaker D: Like, that is that particular note. I think some of the uncanniness from Rosemary's Baby is the. The mundanity isn't a word. No, it is suburban. These characters are. Because that final scene with the baby in the crib. And it is so unexpected that I forgot her name. Old woman Minnie drops the knife. Minnie. She drops the knife and scuffs the floor and she bends down and, like, wipes it off. And it's funny, but it's also uncanny because the good suburban old lady who's trying to make sure the floors don't get damaged. [00:51:43] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:51:43] Speaker D: Is not supposed to kill people. It's supposed to be the people we don't like that kill people. [00:51:51] Speaker B: Yes. It's supposed to be the bad guys. [00:51:53] Speaker D: The outside guys kill people. Not the suburban old lady who cares about the floor. [00:51:59] Speaker A: It's those scary illegals that speak Spanish. Exactly. Right. [00:52:03] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:52:04] Speaker A: Yeah. And eat cats. Yeah. Good job. We really hate the world. But I think that's what we're getting at here. Right? It's, you know, these domestic spaces that we see as. As Freud calls it, Heimlich So heimlich means homely. He ties it into the word hamish, which is also homely. Safe, kosher, if you will. And like unheimlich, which is where the word uncanny comes from. Right? We have these, these domestic situations. We have the Bramford, the sweet, cute, cozy apartment that any of us would love to live in. And yeah, it's this. It's a scene of horror. You have the baby crib at the end and there's a horrible yellow eyed monster baby in it. And like, the horrible thing about it. [00:52:49] Speaker D: Is that baby has jaundice. [00:52:54] Speaker A: It has jaundice. And I. And possibly fangs. [00:52:56] Speaker D: The scariest part of Rosemary's Baby is that baby has jaundice. [00:53:00] Speaker A: Baby has jaundice. Interestingly enough, they don't show the baby in the movie. They just kind of let your brain fill and what it could possibly be. [00:53:10] Speaker D: The audience isn't prepared for jaundice. [00:53:14] Speaker C: I feel like that's going to be another long standing quote for me. Baby has jaundice. [00:53:20] Speaker D: It happens. Jaundice could happen to anybody. [00:53:27] Speaker A: We, we can all be the devil's children. [00:53:33] Speaker D: Devil's got some conditions he's passing down. I forgot what causes jaundice. [00:53:40] Speaker A: Well, you know, all that, all that unsafe sex. Rosemary's Baby, unlike the religiously intentioned the Exorcist and its ilk, works as a succinct metaphor for the prison that the trappings of domestic life can hold for both men and women, but mostly for women, let's be honest. Yes, right. Guy agrees. [00:53:59] Speaker D: Nobody often feels bad for Guy at all. [00:54:02] Speaker A: No, fuck that guy. [00:54:03] Speaker B: Fuck that dude. [00:54:04] Speaker A: He's not as monstrous as the guy in apartment 7A, of course, but that's. [00:54:11] Speaker B: But actually the fact that, like, she's married to him and she's supposed to be able to trust him, right? And, like, that's her husband and she's fulfilling her roles and he's supposed to fulfill his, but he's using nefarious ways to do that. And also, like, the gaslighting thing is like a really big thing because literally everyone in her life is doing it because they cut out all of her friends. All of her friends, which is what happens in abusive relationships. That is like. Yeah, a keystone thing. [00:54:46] Speaker A: And it's interesting too, that he doesn't really lose anything in this deal. Like, his job is to make his wife pregnant. Her job is to stay in the house, carry a baby, conceive it, and keep that baby for whatever purpose. You know, the baby will go on to have. He doesn't want to have a baby. Of course, because, you know, he doesn't want a baby. But by fulfilling his role of causing his wife to conceive, he's allowed to join the real inner group of society, which in this case is a coven of witches and devil worshippers in the Branford. But it works as a metaphor for the demands of society and how being normal allows you to climb the social. [00:55:26] Speaker B: Ladder and where it leaves her, you know, like that's the whole point. Like it's horrifying. That's the scariest part of the book. And it, it still matters today because it still happens. I mean. Yeah, yeah. [00:55:43] Speaker A: And I think the sad thing about Rosemary's Baby, the really compelling thing, it's similar to Handmaid's Tale and the fact that there's no escape from this situation, you know, there's, there's an inherent defeat coded into the book. While Rosemary could do as Terry does in the excellent prequel film, which we've mentioned, apartment 7A, her maternal instincts force her to embrace her demonic spawn at the end, trapping her in the relationship she had been all too ready to flee from a mere moment ago. Yeah, so, I mean, I think the monstrous domestic domesticity portrayed in Rosemary's Baby is horrific for more reasons than just the uncanny. But the strange behavior of the denizens of the Bramford, the cozy apartment serving as a prison and the doctor's office ultimately becoming a place of, well, you know, it's a gilded cage, place of horror. They're all amplified by their off putting, uncanny uncanniness. It's a gilded cage, it looks normal and we accept it as normal. You know, there are people right now who are in situations like that where they cannot leave. They have no agency. The movie's decision to not show the yellow eyed spawn of Satan is similarly off putting in the book. Levin describes his chin, his cheeks, innocent demeanor despite his bright yellow jaundiced eyes. Jaundiced goes to Jack. [00:57:07] Speaker D: I invented jaundice. [00:57:09] Speaker B: Yes, my daughter thinks you. [00:57:14] Speaker A: Good job, sir. I think the Omen's Damien Thorne is worth glancing at at least in passing. Another one of these Catholic horror movies. They're all Catholic horror because, you know, Catholics are obsessed with the devil. They love the devil. All movies with possessions or demonic possessions seem to be. Although Sam Raimi's the Possession is the sole exception, I think. Love that so much, it's pretty cool. The only issue I have with it is that they go to find an orthodox Jew to see if he can hook them up with a rabbi and it's on it's. On the Sabbath and the Jew pulls out a cell phone, which he wouldn't do on Chavez. So that Jew is incidentally Matajahu, the religious Jew, who is a rapper. So I don't know. You would think he might know that. But fun fact. Yeah, fun fact. No one cares, but, you know, it's a fun fact. It's a fun fact. [00:58:12] Speaker B: But my friend Candice has seen Modest Yahoo like, three times. She loves him. [00:58:18] Speaker A: Talented guy. Talented guy. He's in Sam Raimi's the Possession. So check that out if you want to. But, yeah, I think the Omen is, in my opinion, a much better movie than the Exorcist. Although the Exorcist is a lot more lurid and aggressive in what it's doing. It was made by a churchy guy. I mean, the movie, not so much. In fact, interestingly enough, the director of the Exorcist, it's his opinion that there was no possession. It was all in Regan's head, which I think is wild, but whatever. I mean, art, right? Art is a conversation. But the Omen I find to be a more classy movie. A much more compelling movie, too. Have you guys seen the Omen? [00:59:02] Speaker B: Yes. Original. I used to love me some Gregory Peck when I was younger. [00:59:08] Speaker A: He's. He's awesome. He's good. Yeah, he's really good. The. My thing with. With the Exorcist is that I'm not so sure Damian knows he's the spawn of Satan. [00:59:21] Speaker B: You mean the umpire? [00:59:23] Speaker A: What did I say? [00:59:24] Speaker B: The Exorcist, bro. [00:59:26] Speaker A: I fucking do that all the time. No, no, you don't understand. I was talking to one of my friends the other day, and I was like, did you see the recent Exorcist movie? And she's like, oh, it fucking sucked. And I went, are you nuts? And I start describing the first Omen. [00:59:43] Speaker B: That was flipping gorgeous. It looked like one of my paintings. Like, every scene, like, it was breathtaking and terrifying in, like, a really creepy way. I loved. [00:59:54] Speaker A: It was a really nasty, clever. Am I allowed to say sexy movie. It was off putting. It was dark. It was inventive. And I'm describing it. It's just like, dan, that's not the Exorcist movie. That's the first Omen. I'm like, what did I say? So I. In my head, there's like a shelf with, like, a little. A little cross on the side because it's the Christian movies, and the Omen and the Exorcist are right next to each other. And I just. I grabbed from. I grabbed the wrong one constantly. Mentally, it's. It's a problem. I need. I need therapy. Okay. My thing with the Exorcist, though, that I love, that I find really, I can't. You know, I think we're gonna get. We're gonna let Sir Bones a lot do this now because I can't handle it. Alright? I fucking did it again. My thing with the Omen is that whenever you see Damien, he doesn't speak until he has to. He makes these guttural little sounds. He cries, he whines. He's like a little monster. [01:00:55] Speaker D: He's just like me, for real. [01:00:57] Speaker A: He's just like Jack, for real. [01:01:00] Speaker B: There you go. [01:01:05] Speaker D: That's how I got this job. I was crawling around in King Loki's walls. He was like, hey, do you want to be on the podcast? And I was like. He was like, you've got to say something if you want to be on the podcast. I was like, okay. [01:01:21] Speaker C: Okay. Works. It's a word. [01:01:25] Speaker A: It's true. It's all true. All of it. The other thing about the Exorcist is. I mean, personally, I find the 666, the literal 666 birthmark, to be kind of silly, but whatever. [01:01:37] Speaker D: That was a crazy part of the Exorcist. [01:01:39] Speaker B: Like, I feel like it's the same problem with M. Night Shyamalan's movies lately. Like, he has to spell everything out. Like people. If you don't have, like, the symbolism, their brains are not going to connect the dots. Unless they're weirdos like us. [01:01:52] Speaker A: Yeah. It's for the normies, I guess. [01:01:54] Speaker D: Make movies for weirdos, though. It's okay. [01:01:57] Speaker B: They have been. And it's really exciting. [01:01:59] Speaker A: Yeah. It's called the first Omen. It's great. [01:02:01] Speaker B: I don't think. Jack. Jack. You're not allowed to watch so fine. [01:02:05] Speaker D: With like, bugs in your skin, exploding graphic murder. [01:02:12] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:02:14] Speaker D: Somebody has sex. [01:02:16] Speaker C: I can't do. [01:02:20] Speaker D: I can't do sex. We all have our weaknesses. [01:02:24] Speaker B: We do. That's what makes this interesting. [01:02:27] Speaker A: Well, sex is horrific. I mean, let's be honest. Male procreation. Male human. That was a 48 slip right there. Human procreation is hideous. You know? [01:02:38] Speaker D: Yeah, it. [01:02:38] Speaker B: Gross. [01:02:40] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. [01:02:41] Speaker D: I'm so glad my parents never had sex. [01:02:43] Speaker A: Yeah, right. You're the child from the. From the. The Rammstein song. Mutter, you know, no one else reads the lyrics to Rammstein. All right. Anyway. Translates. Yeah, yeah. No, it's a great album. It's not a test tube. Baby. It's like a little monster baby or something that had no mother. It's very weird. Did anyone see Village of the Damned? Is it just me? [01:03:12] Speaker B: Yes. No, I've seen both versions. [01:03:14] Speaker A: Okay. I didn't see the 60s one. That's okay. Okay, look, it's good. I actually recommend the 90s one. Adrian, is the 60s one worth watching? [01:03:21] Speaker B: So the 60s one has actually. I love it. I'm not gonna lie. Like, it's actually my favorite version. I do love the other version. Christopher Reeves in that version. [01:03:34] Speaker A: Is he in it? [01:03:35] Speaker B: Yes. [01:03:35] Speaker A: Okay. I thought it might be Dustin Hoffman, but I'm an idiot and who can't tell people apart, so. [01:03:39] Speaker B: No, it's Christopher Reeves. It's Superman. [01:03:41] Speaker A: So, yeah, let's talk about Village of the Damned, 1960, it's 90s remake. They both feature a group of children born in the wake of a mysterious comet that flies over the town. They all have matching white hair, creepy, staring eyes, and a psychic length that essentially makes them a cohesive single unit. They walk together, sit together, and stare in the same direction together, thinking the same mysterious thoughts. The uncanniness of these kids all moving as one serves to change. The sight of schoolchildren sitting in a classroom being instructed together and walking down the street into scenes of tension and horror. Those of us with kids wonder what our kids are doing on their phones, what they walk, you know, what they talk about in school on the playground, or if they're older, whether, you know, wherever they're hanging out. Adrian, I think you're the only one here who actually has kids. I mean, I do. [01:04:29] Speaker B: I usually pay attention to what my kids watch. I mean, my situation's really different. So, yes, sometimes I do wonder, like. But I typically like to listen, and I get excited about the stuff that they get excited about. So we actually have, like, communication because they're not part of an alien hive mind. [01:04:49] Speaker A: Wow. [01:04:51] Speaker B: So that. Not yet. [01:04:54] Speaker A: Yeah. As Jack just said, not that, you know, of. [01:04:57] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. And that's the thing, like, the not knowing. But how much can you really know about a person? Like, I treat my kids like they're people. And that's the thing, because especially in the 60s, like, children were supposed to be seen and not heard. And it really plays into that. But then behind the being seen and not heard, like, there's, you know, terrible thing happening, and it's really. It's really interesting and it turns horrifying. Also, a lot of the women, especially in the newer one, like, couldn't get pregnant and then find themselves Pregnant after the comet. And that is a big deal. Like they think it's like this gift, this miracle, like, ah, kind of like what we were talking about. But like, seriously, worst case scenario. And like Rosemary's Baby, they're once again trapped in those maternal instincts for the kids. You know what I mean? [01:05:56] Speaker A: I think that's a really great breakdown of that. And I just want to point out that I think birth itself is pretty uncanny. I mean, you know, the concept is like, it seems magical and scary. [01:06:12] Speaker B: I've done it twice. It is the most terrifying thing I've ever done in my life. Yeah, Like I had to have an emergency C section with Morgan. Like I thought I was gonna do taxes and have pancakes after my doctor's appointment got sent to the emergency room, which the doctor didn't want to tell me because he knew I was going to freak out. And he had the head nurse at the. At the E.R. tell me, no, you're not leaving here without the baby. And then they had to cut me open. And that was my first ever surgery. Like I'd never been cut open before for anything. And all of a sudden I had this person I watched drag me to hell while I was in the hospital. [01:06:50] Speaker A: I. [01:06:51] Speaker C: That's what's up. [01:06:52] Speaker A: That. [01:06:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:06:55] Speaker A: No, no, Dragon Hell is great. It's not as scary as giving birth either. But, you know, I think maybe the only movie that comes close is Lars Von Trier's Antichrist. [01:07:04] Speaker B: I watched that once and I cannot watch it again. I can't do it. And I love the actors in it and I can't do it again. [01:07:09] Speaker A: I watched it twice. [01:07:12] Speaker B: You told me that you are a braver man than I, sir. [01:07:15] Speaker A: No. [01:07:16] Speaker D: You know, have y'all seen that movie Tiddlywinks or whatever? Nope. No, it's not called that movie. [01:07:26] Speaker B: The kids in the television. [01:07:28] Speaker D: Two Toddlers Get Skinnamarink. Get him a rink. Yes. [01:07:34] Speaker A: You want to talk about uncanny, motherfucker. That's an uncanny fucking movie. [01:07:39] Speaker B: That's meets David lynch meets. I can't even. That one actually got me. That one actually terrified the out of me. [01:07:50] Speaker D: It's so horrific because they're just little kids. [01:07:53] Speaker B: They're just little kids. They can process some of the stuff that's happening around them. So it's not like when you're like yelling at the girl on the tv like, get the. Don't go down the basement. Get the out of there. Don't do this. You can't yell at kids like that. They have no idea. They have. Because their parents are dead. Like, before the movie even starts. [01:08:12] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I think the. I think the most upsetting part is where the little boy, he doesn't. He can't put one and two together, but he knows. He knows the spooky is doing it all. And he's like, you did that at one point. [01:08:24] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:08:25] Speaker A: And like, he sees his sister. Her face is gone. You know, it's just gone. [01:08:30] Speaker B: Well, and that is definitely an example of the uncanny. Like, you're like the face and then his eyes, like. Yeah. [01:08:38] Speaker A: Jack, did you call that movie Tiddlywinks? [01:08:41] Speaker B: He did. [01:08:41] Speaker D: I did call it Tiddlywinks. Yep. It's very similar sounding words. [01:08:48] Speaker A: That's awesome. Skinnamarink. Wait, wait, have you not seen it, Jack? [01:08:54] Speaker D: I have seen it. [01:08:56] Speaker A: You have seen it? [01:08:56] Speaker D: Okay, I've. It's one of those movies that I'm very familiar with because I did a bunch of research on it. Instead of dedicating two hours to it, it was easier to dedicate five hours of multiple video writings about it. [01:09:09] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, you know, some people. Some people prefer movies over books because, like, oh, well, two hours and I'm done. But why do that when you could just, you know, dedicate like hours and hours to researching the movie, you know? [01:09:21] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah. [01:09:22] Speaker A: I mean, it's what I do sometimes. [01:09:23] Speaker D: So, you know, why consume any media when you could research it like some kind of bug? [01:09:31] Speaker A: So our fear of our own children is one thing. You know, I say with no children, besides for this David Bowie Barbie doll, you know, my precious. [01:09:41] Speaker B: You're just rubbing that in my face right now. Yeah. You know, I love that. [01:09:47] Speaker A: I think it's fairly clear why that anxiety keeps popping up in our fiction. Our fear of our children. Right. But what about the other side of the equation? Killer doll movies are one of my favorite genres of horror movies, especially the direct to dumpster type of horror movies. [01:10:02] Speaker B: You know, anything by Don Mancini is basically what you're saying, okay, time the fuck out. [01:10:09] Speaker A: Chucky is the Citizen Kane of killer doll movies. That's a real movie. Like, that's a real movie. That's a masterpiece. I'm talking, when I say garbage, I mean like that Full Moon Charles band shit. You know, like puppet master. Okay. [01:10:23] Speaker B: Those were really fun and I love them. [01:10:24] Speaker C: That movie is terrible. So bad. [01:10:28] Speaker B: I love them. I've seen every one. [01:10:31] Speaker A: I have two. I've made my bubby watch a lot of them, too. She's a big fan, you know, she totally doesn't bitch and moan every time I put one On. [01:10:40] Speaker C: Have any of you guys seen that movie that's literally just called Demonic Toys? [01:10:46] Speaker A: Yeah, that's another Charles Band Full Moon movie. [01:10:49] Speaker C: Yeah. Okay, that's what I thought you were talking about. I love that one too. That was one of my favorite movies as a kid. I watched it all the time. Terrible, terrible. [01:11:00] Speaker A: Oh, it's wonderful. Baby, Baby. Oopsie Daisy. You know, he's like, I can walk, I can talk, I can even shit my pants. And he stabs you. [01:11:08] Speaker C: I quote that all the time. [01:11:09] Speaker A: Still, it's great. It's wonderful. It's an Academy Award winner. They crossed over, actually. Puppet Master versus Demonic Toys is actually one of the better ones, but only because Full Moon direct didn't make it. It was made by Sci Fi Channel, which, believe it or not, gave it higher production value. [01:11:26] Speaker B: It was super fun. I think the third Puppet Master movie, though, was my favorite. The one where they kind of get into the backstory of toys. [01:11:32] Speaker A: Oh, that's the closest that ever comes to being a real movie. [01:11:35] Speaker B: I mean, really. Like, I thought that one was actually pretty in a way because, you know. [01:11:42] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, it's such a. It's such a small hill, but it's like the first movie, the second movie, the third movie, it's. It. Yeah, yeah. And then the fourth movie, fifth movie, and then, you know, there's 12 of them. So do the math. I mean. But yeah, those are some of my favorite movies because they're really good. Now what was I saying? So my question is, are killer dolls actually uncanny? Like we think, you know, killer, demonic children are. Right. I do have a very nice quote from an article from the Smithsonian. You know, it's a quote from curators from the Pollux Toy Museum in London. [01:12:25] Speaker B: Is it about Robert the Doll? [01:12:27] Speaker A: You know, we can jump to Robert the Doll actually right after this because I think Jack is really excited to talk about Robert the Doll. [01:12:34] Speaker B: My boy, Jack, you're amazing. [01:12:37] Speaker A: Yes, according to the curators of the. Of the. Of the museum, it's actually. It's the adults who are mostly disturbed by the final room, which is where the dolls are. It's small rooms. By the way, this article is written by Linda Rodriguez McRobbie. So it's from the Smithsonian. The history of creepy dolls. Its small rooms house a large haphazard collection of antique and vintage toys. Tin cars and trains, board games from the twenties, figures of animals and people in wood, plastic, lead paint, chipped and faintly dangerous looking rocking horses, stuffed teddy bears from the early 20th century, and even purportedly a 4,000 year old mouse fashioned from Nile clay and dolls. Dolls with sleepy faces with staring glass eyes. Dolls with porcelain faces with true to life painted ragdoll faces with mops of real hair atop their heads, some with no hair at all. 150 year old Victorian dolls, rare dolls with wax faces, dolls with cheery countenances, dolls with stern expressions, sweet dolls and vaguely sinister dolls. Skinny Dutch wooden dolls from the end of the 19th century. Dolls in traditional Japanese or Chinese dress. One glassed off nook of a room is crammed with porcelain faced dolls and 19th century clothing, sitting in vintage model carriages and propped up in wrought iron bedsteads as if in a miniaturized overcrowded Victorian orphanage. Fear of dolls is a very real thing and even comes with its own fancy scientific name, pediaphobia, not pedophilia. Pedophobia with fear of puppets being poopa phobia. I think there is quite a tradition of using dolls to reflect cultural values and how we see children or who we wish them to be, says Patricia Hogan, curator at the Strong National Museum of Play in Rochester, New York and associate editor of the American Journal of Play. For example, she says, by the end of the 19th century, many parents no longer saw their children as unfinished adults, but rather regarded childhood as a time of innocence that ought to be protected. In turn, dolls faces took on a more cherubic, angelic look. Dolls also have an instructional function, often reinforcing gender norms and social behavior to. [01:14:48] Speaker D: Okay, dolls having an instructional function. I was not super into dolls as a little guy, but I was into stuffed animals. And I understand that the play behavior is supposed to be instructionally functional and you have your social interactions, but me and my friends just played war and kill each other with the stuffed animals. And what if we lived in a dystopian society and also we were leopards? [01:15:28] Speaker B: I want to live in your world, Jack. [01:15:32] Speaker C: Me too. [01:15:32] Speaker A: I mean, if we, if we were leopards, there would be no gender norms. I mean, you know, male leopards and female leopards both kill the same way, right? [01:15:41] Speaker D: Yeah, that wasn't an aspect in our instructional play. It was more of. [01:15:46] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:15:47] Speaker D: One of my favorite ones was Leopard goes to school for herbivorous animals. And it's difficult because the leopard has to kill to survive. Yeah, but proms tomorrow. [01:16:02] Speaker B: Bum bum. [01:16:04] Speaker A: I mean, leopards kill as the gods kill. Without mercy, without pity, without understanding. Yeah, to be honest. [01:16:12] Speaker D: And this is why dogs can't go to high school. [01:16:16] Speaker A: To be honest, my mother, you know, among her many sins, she did one thing cool which was she encouraged my little brothers to play with baby dolls and me, too, when I was a little baby. Because her reasoning was, well, they're gonna be. They're gonna be daddies one day, so they should learn. You know, she bought them toy vacuum cleaners and stuff. And it's not to say we didn't have spider Mans or, I don't know, monster trucks or whatever, but, you know, I do think that that's generally a good way to be because it kind of breaks down that barrier that people have when they get to high school. And the hell of this Skinner box that, you know, this gender societal expectations are kind of gets inflicted on you. So what was I saying? Yeah, I'm not gonna ramble about this anymore. I mean, like, you know, you have, like, the Bratz and the Monsters High garbage where they're teaching girls how to dress and how to be ladies and so on. [01:17:09] Speaker B: Some of the first versions of dolls weren't really even supposed to, like, have that function so much as, like, they were used as, like, almost like, to worship. Like, you have one of the first things which was like, the Venus of Willendorf, which, you know, is like one of the first human forms, but it was actually like a religious thing instead of like. Yeah, yeah. I don't know. [01:17:37] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. The large round idol. Yeah. [01:17:40] Speaker C: Mm. [01:17:41] Speaker A: It's actually in Hellboy. It's in Hellboy, too. [01:17:44] Speaker B: I know, I know. [01:17:49] Speaker A: So, yeah, I mean, I think it's important that is true. You know, all these, like, little. Little images. I mean, like, it's one of those fascinating things where, like, you know, like every time we dig up a little figurine, like when they're excavating somewhere in Judea, Israel or whatever, they're like, oh, this is probably BAAL or Astarte or whatever Semitic God, you know, predated Yahweh or whatever. But it's like when they dig up the ruins of our civil. When alien archaeologists are digging up the ruins of our civilization, are they going to pull Ninja Turtles out and be like, oh, my God, it's a fertility. It's another fertility God. You know, Like, I don't know. [01:18:32] Speaker B: It'll be really interesting, but I bet it'll be Barbie. [01:18:38] Speaker A: Yeah, right. Donna, tell the fertility God. Anyway, mostly dolls aren't just for girls. Boys do play with dolls. Although probably not the same way that they used to. As seen in 1988, child's play. Because Andy is a boy. Right? [01:18:57] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:18:58] Speaker A: Yeah. He wanted fucking Chucky. It was the must have toy of the Season. [01:19:02] Speaker B: Like the Cabbage Patch Dolls from when I was a kid. It was literally a thing. [01:19:07] Speaker A: Yeah. What was that? What was the doll that they. They based his look off of Corky? [01:19:14] Speaker B: My buddy. My buddy. [01:19:16] Speaker A: That. Okay, that's the real doll. But what was the. Oh, it was the Twilight Zone. Corky, right? [01:19:22] Speaker B: Yes. Yes. That was. [01:19:24] Speaker A: Yeah, Corky's fucking scary. It's fucking scary. I'll cut you. The Good Guy doll from the Chucky movies reflects the electronic playthings that would come to dominate toy stores in the late 90s and early 2000s, before the advent of cheap tablets and app stores clogged with freemium games took over the landscape. So that's what kids mostly play with, is my understanding. You know, I don't think I need to stretch too far to point out how shocking it is to hear the Chucky doll curse and kill. In the original movie, he bites the mom, tells Andy horrific things. He tells. He tells Andy that the babysitter is in hell, which is hilarious. [01:20:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:20:06] Speaker A: Yeah, it's great. He exhibits the behavior of the degenerate killer Charles Lee Ray in a way that is almost adorable. And over the. In how over the top it is, does Uncanny even cover the effect of what he does? Right? I think it does. At least in the first movie, where the reveal of Chucky moving and talking is meant to be horrific. Like, when you see him run in the background, it's like, fuck, did I just see? You know? [01:20:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:20:30] Speaker A: I would argue that even entries in the series that revel in irony, like Bride of Chucky, have uncanny elements beyond the superficial thrills and chills of blood, swearing, and dal. Sex and childbirth. [01:20:44] Speaker B: So, yeah, that one had it all. [01:20:47] Speaker A: Yeah. Bride of Chucky is a masterpiece. Mm. Yeah, it's a masterpiece. And not just because of the scenes of Bride of Frankenstein in it. It's. It's flawless. [01:20:57] Speaker B: While she electrocuted, it was priceless. [01:21:01] Speaker A: Jennifer Tilly is a goddess. She's so cool. [01:21:03] Speaker B: I know. [01:21:07] Speaker C: Very talented and very lovely woman. [01:21:11] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:21:12] Speaker B: And she's funny. Like, she's just absolutely hilarious, but, like, this really brilliant kind of way. [01:21:20] Speaker C: And apparently she's a poker champ. We love a multifaceted faceted lady. [01:21:26] Speaker B: Yeah, she's many talents. And she really likes jewelry. Not that I follow her on Instagram. [01:21:35] Speaker A: I was. I was telling Adrienne the other day that she reminds me of Harley quinn from the 90s cartoon show. 90s Batman cartoon show, because she's sassy, she's unpredictable, and she's just alive. And she's hilarious, you know? [01:21:50] Speaker B: What? [01:21:50] Speaker C: I mean, I think that's a great comparison. [01:21:54] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:21:55] Speaker B: Probably the most perfect comparison. [01:21:57] Speaker A: You could tell that she has like a vulnerability to her, at least in how she plays Tiffany, you know. Adrian, what was the line that you really liked from Bride Chucky? [01:22:06] Speaker B: To go to hell. She's not like screaming it at the end. She does it in this, like really, like. Like you said, like this vulnerable way where she's like, I'll see you in hell. That's what it was. So sad. Like she's so tragical about it instead of being like angry even though they're like killing each other. And it's, it's magic. That is just absolute magic. And apparently no one was expecting her to like, do the line that way. She just like blew everyone away when she read it like that. When wrote it. They wrote it completely different. But that's just how she saw it because she's cool. [01:22:42] Speaker A: Well, Jennifer Tilly is really her and Brad Douf and a lot of people that are in the Chucky movies, they're really significantly different than the average people that are in these movies who are like, yeah, I was in this weird movie. Like she. She took the role seriously. [01:22:56] Speaker B: Yes. [01:22:57] Speaker A: Yeah. So something that I think is really cool about the TV series Chucky, which sadly got cancelled. It got three seasons, which is more than you would have expected. It's. It's one of the best entries in the series. But basically, Chucky befriends a social outcast who is really being bullied. He's being abused by his father. He destroys his art. He's cruel to him. He suspects his son of being gay. And him actually being gay doesn't. Doesn't help his self esteem either. And Chucky kind of tries really hard. He sells himself as being his friend to the very end, which is his line. And he tries to. He tries to get him into killing, just as Chucky's. Chucky learned how to kill from an older father figure. And the thing about, the thing about the show that really makes it beat at first is the fact that you, you know, unless you've seen every entry like most of us have, you might start to think that Chucky's for real. He's advocating for this kid. And you kind of wish you had a little foul mouth, bad motherfucker, killer doll that would have stood up for you in high school, you know, and. [01:24:08] Speaker B: Said all the things that you didn't feel comfortable saying yourself. [01:24:12] Speaker A: Yeah. Like there's a really great scene in the show where there's this girl who's bullying him. She's really cruel. She's one of those popular, you know, drop dead gorgeous blonde chicks. And she makes fun of. I think the main character's name is Jake. I'm horrible with names. It's not in my little right up here, but his name's Jake. It is Jake. It's Jake. Thank you. She makes fun of him for being poor, for possibly being gay. And Chucky's behind him while she's doing her little stand up routine. And he says something nasty and she's like, oh, did you have something you wanted to say, Jake? And he goes up there holding Chucky. And Chucky just says some of the most like hilarious and fucked up things about her and about her mom. And it's great. It's seriously great because Chucky is doing. He's a total bro. He puts her in her fucking place. But you know, obviously Chucky is still Chucky. Right? So. [01:25:05] Speaker B: Right. [01:25:06] Speaker A: He's got an ulterior motive. And I think that's part of what makes him so compelling. Because I talked about Pinocchio's revenge earlier, but I don't know that any killer doll movie, like even something like Megan really comes close to building the type of multi layered character that Chucky is. But here's my question. What, what was that aid? [01:25:25] Speaker B: Magic. [01:25:26] Speaker A: Magic. Well, that's the all time classic. Tell us about magic. [01:25:31] Speaker B: It's this guy with this ventriloquist dummy. And they spend most of the movie you think it's the guy like. Well, and the book like you think it's him, right? And he's just acting out through the dummy. And then you find out towards the end that it's actually the dummy. This came out way before Child's Play and actually the guy that wrote the Princess Bride, William Goldman, wrote that and he wrote the screenplay and it had Anthony Hopkins in the movie. And it was just so like when you figure out it's the doll, it's like this big. [01:26:04] Speaker D: Oh my God. [01:26:05] Speaker B: And it's like horrifying. And when they do the, in the Chucky series, when they do the talent show part and he's doing the vent, it's literally an homage to that movie. It was flipping brilliant. But it's also playing into that whole like uncanny, like, you know what I mean? I'm not excited at all. That was a childhood favorite of mine. That was like one of the first like doll movies I ever saw as a kid from the 70s. [01:26:33] Speaker A: My question is, is Chucky uncanny all on his own? [01:26:35] Speaker C: You know, I would Certainly say so probably. [01:26:42] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, like, just seeing him move because I. I do feel like. So, like there was a moment when I was watching Seed of Chucky where like John Waters is outside, like filming, Filming Tiffany, like running around. [01:26:53] Speaker B: And I'm like, I know what. I know exactly what scene you're talking about. [01:26:57] Speaker A: No, it's great. It's great stuff. But I'm like, God, this is like. This is like another planet here, you know? And it's like you kind of move past, like the thrill of just seeing the doll and your brain has taken it for granted at that point. You know, it's like the mystique of the thing is lost, you know? And I think at a certain point, At a certain point, like, Chucky becomes a cartoon character. It's like watching Sonic the Hedgehog or something. It's like, oh, look, it's Sonic. You know, it's that guy. It's that. It's that little doll that says, fuck you, bitch. You know? [01:27:28] Speaker B: Well. Oh, no, but well, good. Then they go in this thing with Curse of Chucky where he's literally like wearing a mask over his real Chucky. And like, he's actually like trying to just be this doll. And it's like super weird again. And it's like you're familiar with Chucky. You're expecting cartoon Chucky. And like, for most of the movie, like, you don't even know. Like, I mean, you know, but you don't really know, you know what I mean? Until he rips the fake plastic face off. And then it's the Chucky that you're familiar with. [01:28:01] Speaker A: Yeah, that's the cool thing about that movie. And I think that Don Mancini was very. I mean, he's a very smart guy. Like, when you hear like, there is a five power fucking documentary that we watched, it was. It is amazing. It's on shudder. It kicks ass. It goes through all seven of the seven, seven core movies. It does not reach the show. I think it was filmed before the show got off the ground. Yeah, it does not address the reboot, which is fine, but doesn't. Had none of these people working on it. It's just whatever. It's just a film. Unreal. It has my wife Aubrey Plaza in it. But I think Don Mancini was very well aware of how the public saw Chucky, what the franchise had essentially become. And yeah, I went into Curse of Chucky thinking it was a straight reboot and it's a scaled back movie. Chucky's back to just doing his thing. Putting rat poison in soup, stabbing people. And like, yeah, it's like, okay, cool. This is a back to basics Chucky movie. He's kind of cool. He's kind of. Kind of creepy. But you don't expect to see the continuity until you. Until. Until you do. So as Adrian said, he rips that. He rips that good guy doll face. And there's the scarred, stapled jigsaw face. [01:29:13] Speaker B: You know, it starts calling people and stuff again. It's appropriate. [01:29:18] Speaker A: It's awesome. [01:29:20] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:29:22] Speaker D: Tell you what. That TV show was my first experience with Chucky. Well, that's my first experience. I had watched some YouTube videos, and my poor friend Cecil, we had exactly what we just described. That was our experience. My poor friend Cecil, who can't watch this episode because I don't want him to associate me with the crucifix in the vagina line. So he's not allowed to watch this anyways. He's terrified of mannequins and dolls. That doesn't work for him. So watching that TV show, he. He hated the way Chucky was animated. Hated. Every time he moved, he was like, this thing's awful. I hate it. I hate it. And I'm sitting there like, jake, this is your new father. This is Chucky's, your new dad. He killed your old dad so he can be your new dad. And then as he started getting worse and worse throughout the show, it went from, this is your new dad, Chucky, to no, Ch, this isn't woke. That's what we kept screaming at the TV was, no, Chucky, don't do that. That's not woke. [01:30:41] Speaker C: Another quote right there. [01:30:44] Speaker A: That's epic. [01:30:45] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:30:46] Speaker D: I think it started with when he killed the housekeeper. We were like, no, Chucky, that's not woke. [01:30:52] Speaker A: He's such an asshole. Yeah, he is. I think. I think the thing that really makes Chucky stand out from, like, something like puppet master or even magic is the fact that Chucky is a guy. He is a person. He is a thing. Like, he bleeds, he has sex, he drinks. He likes. He likes White Zombie, you know, Adrian, which movie is it where he. Where rob zombies on? He's like, what is this shit? He turns. [01:31:19] Speaker B: That is Bride of Chucky, right? [01:31:22] Speaker A: Incredible movie. [01:31:23] Speaker B: And it starts off with Rob Zombie. And then, like, they go into the White Zombie, and it's really fun. Why this stuff? [01:31:31] Speaker A: Because you're awesome. Erica, did you have anything you wanted to add about Curse? [01:31:35] Speaker C: Oh. I'm sitting here filtering through all of the movies in my mind now and thinking about all the different things that we've seen come and go over the last couple of movies, especially as we return to that kind of, like, baseline that the original Child's Play had. I kind of miss the campy vibes, honestly. But it was also really refreshing getting to see him just be a doll for a little bit before we got to see Old School. Gross. Fucked up Chuckie. It was like, one of my mom's favorite things to say is, he's so ugly. He's cute. As soon as he started peeling everything off, it was like, there he goes. There's the ugly. I need ugly. [01:32:22] Speaker A: Like a horrible, horrible, horrible insect peeling off its, like, cute caterpillar skin, you know? [01:32:28] Speaker B: But you can't help but cheer. You're literally cheering when he pulls that face off. You're like, yeah, exactly. [01:32:34] Speaker C: I was sitting there the whole time like, yes, let's go. [01:32:39] Speaker D: There's another quote. You're cheering when he pulls his face off. [01:32:47] Speaker A: No, I agree, though. I tend to agree, like, because I like Chuck E. I like Child's Play 2. I like Child's Play 3. I think they're fine, but I like the unrestrained madness of, like, Bride and Seed. And I think the show is phenomenal. It goes to every extreme and doesn't give a fuck at all. [01:33:05] Speaker C: I think Cult was also done very well. [01:33:09] Speaker B: Cult made some of those deaths so beautiful. Like, morbidly beautiful. Yes. I'm a sucker for falling glass and you add snow to it. And, like, I am all just about. [01:33:20] Speaker C: To bring that up. [01:33:22] Speaker B: Dude, we're on the same page with that. It was. And honestly, like, that was the one character where you're just, like, sad that they die anyway. So they gave her, like, this beautiful death, and it was, like, perfect. And then, like, the visceral death of the psychologist at the end with the shoes that he's putting on her, and she stomps his face in and you're like, yes, because it's not her anymore, it's Chucky. And you're, like, rooting for him again. [01:33:50] Speaker C: I like that Chuck likes to call her Chuck Nica in the videos where he goes over those few. I think Cult was very well done, though. Everything is very intentional, visually. [01:34:06] Speaker B: Even the color. [01:34:07] Speaker C: It just. Yes. The entire color scheme is so, like, sterile and shocking in some parts and then so, like, dark and muddy and others, like, we're used to. But it balances so well. And it's so meaningful when it's done the way it's done. [01:34:27] Speaker B: They did the pretty indigo, indie indigo tones, like, so Like, a lot of the movies, like, got like this blue tone to it. And then her red shoes at the end, like, it just makes them pop. And then the blood, like, the red of the blood. Like, I am just. I'm a color nerd. Like, I paint. So it's literally like that gave me life. [01:34:51] Speaker C: It was so striking. Very, very definitely. Much think it's worth the watch. 10 out of 10 would recommend the reboot, though. My 1 comment There is that I think their Chucky is ugly. Very, very ugly. And not in the cute way. [01:35:12] Speaker A: Well, the thing about that movie is my. And I think it's worth pointing out that. So a lot of people do have those, those. Those talking Alexa blocks and stuff, right? And there are a lot that's a subgenre of movies, like the Killer Home Assistant, whatever. One of my favorites has a drone. And it has, like in the trailer, the drone is sitting in a rocking chair and it's going back and forth. I forget what it's called. I'll hunt it down. It's. It's. It's a really boring movie. It's the worst kind of bad movie. But my point is that the Child's Play reboot thing, it's in that genre. It's not in the killer doll genre. And it's head and shoulders above all that bullshit. I mean, Don Mancini didn't do it. Brad Durf didn't do the voice. It was actually on Mark Hamill, who is fantastic in his. Yeah, he's Mark Hamill's fantastic. We love Mark Hamill. But, yeah, it's not. It's not related to this discussion because it's not. It's not a real Chucky movie, you know? Okay, um. What did I want to say? I wanted to say something, right? I think that being the case, Don Mancini, he always goes to great lengths to give Chucky and Tiffany, as it were, very compelling death scenes. I mean, the movie's got tons of them. I mean, at one point, Jake squeezes Chucky so hard his eyes pop out like a cartoon character. It's great. Don Mancini is such a visionary. There's like a great scene in the documentary doc of Chucky where he's describing this, like, shot he wanted where the camera is spinning above. It's in Curse of Chucky where the soup bowls are laid out like a revolver. And he's talking about it and it hard cuts to the editor. He's like, these fucking shots are so hard to do. I hate shooting this stuff. So I've seen M3gan twice. I think it's okay. I have some issues with it. I think it's effective. I think it's successful at what it does for the most part. But the thing about M3gan that isn't true of Chucky is that Megan is often CGI or not. Yeah, like in Chucky. In Chucky movies and in the show, Chucky is almost always an animatronic or a puppet. He is always a puppet. [01:37:21] Speaker B: He is. They refuse to do it anyway. Else. [01:37:24] Speaker A: Yeah, they use Bunraku puppets with the rods. They, they have little special animatronics that just go like this or kick their legs. I mean, now we're getting into the movie magic, but I think that that adds to Chucky's lifelike and un. Uncanny qualities because he's like a little person, you know, It's a lot of work that goes into what he does. [01:37:45] Speaker B: I don't think CGI has the same uncanny effect. No, it doesn't feel human. And so it's not scary because something in brains just automatically writes it off. Or at least it does with me. It doesn't have that weird feel. [01:38:00] Speaker A: Similarly, you don't think, you don't think Jar Jar is off putting Jar Jar Binks from Star Wars? [01:38:05] Speaker B: Oh, he's off putting, but on a whole different level. [01:38:07] Speaker A: Yeah, he sucks. [01:38:08] Speaker D: Not because he's cgi, it's because he's jarred. [01:38:11] Speaker B: Maybe a bit. [01:38:14] Speaker A: Yeah, Jar Jar sucks. I, I, I wonder if Darter is misunderstood and he's, and we're the real monsters. Like, is it a Frankenstein situation? You know, like, I don't know. I have a lot of dark eyes. [01:38:26] Speaker D: Intentionally harmful. [01:38:28] Speaker B: I agree especially with the way that he talks there. It is so problematic. Like it's not okay. Like it's literally not okay. [01:38:37] Speaker D: And they just thought like that in his entire species. [01:38:42] Speaker A: No, that's not true. If you watch the cartoon show, they're all, they all fucking talk like that. They suck. The Gungans, they're horrible, horrible racist caricatures. [01:38:52] Speaker B: Yeah, that's, that was my point. It's disgusting. I just can't with that. [01:38:58] Speaker A: Interestingly enough, when the Boondocks comic strip started, Aaron Magruder's first few strips were all about Jar Jar and Huey, like just pissed off that it was a thing that existed. It was, it was his soapbox. It's, it's great stuff. So do we want to say anything else about child's play? Jack, do you have anything, any thoughts? [01:39:22] Speaker D: I still want to talk about Robert, but that's not child's play. [01:39:26] Speaker A: Let's talk about Robert the doll. [01:39:29] Speaker D: So it's so fun. It gets into our thesis. Robert the doll is a real guy and you're supposed to be. I'm going to let y'all know now. Robert has caused. Do I have any numbers? Robert has caused divorces, death, terrible accidents. So when we're talking about Robert, we need to be very respectful because otherwise you get hit with the curse. And we could crack jokes about the curse and be like, ah, curse isn't real. But I feel like asking for bad things to happen is stupid. So I'm not your dad. Crack the jokes you want. I'm going to try not to. Anywho, so trying to find actual information on this guy was so difficult because he's such an attraction in Key West. Of course, you always get the same horror story over and over again, which is what I will tell to y'all. So there was this little guy, his name was Robert Eugene Otto. And he belonged to a prominent Key west family. And one of the maids made him a life size 2 foot tall doll of him. And Robert in the modern day is certainly a figure. He is 2ft tall, about the size of an actual child. He has that flesh tone and he is covered in these brownish spots like scars. In the pictures, it looks like holes in his skin. He is wearing Eugene's clothes and he's got this little toy doll and he is locked up in a glass case in Key West. And if you'd like, you can go visit him. And you cannot take pictures of him because otherwise you get divorced and you die trying not to crack jokes. Forget I said I'm sorry, Robert. [01:41:33] Speaker B: Anyhow, ask him permission if you could take his photo. [01:41:37] Speaker A: Is that true? [01:41:38] Speaker D: Supposedly people have asked permission and their lives still get fucked up. [01:41:42] Speaker B: Okay then. Not worth it. [01:41:44] Speaker A: Well, hang on a second. You can't ask permission and then just take the picture. Like Robert has to give an indication otherwise you can't take the picture. [01:41:50] Speaker D: That's what I figure. He's got it. You can't just be like, hey, I asked permission. And he's like, I said no, I don't like you. [01:42:01] Speaker B: That's actually extremely more than fair. [01:42:05] Speaker D: Yeah, incredibly fair. Robert's a reasonable guy. But it's interesting because after he got the doll, Robert Eugene Otto just gave the doll his name. He started going by Jean or Eugene. He no longer answered to Robert because Robert was the doll's name. And he would talk as if Robert was a person and he would say, oh, I didn't do that. Robert did it. That's the famous quote. And Eugene held on to this doll for his entire life. His wife hated it. After Eugene died, Robert ended up in the attic. Then the wife moved out, left the doll in the attic because apparently she hated the next guy that bought her house. And they reported they would hear his little footsteps running around and they'd see him in the window of the attic. So eventually he went through various owners and he ended up at the museum in Key West. And that's my precious boy, Robert. How is he relevant? [01:43:04] Speaker B: He's definitely uncanny. [01:43:06] Speaker D: He is incredibly uncanny. And it's interesting how he took the child's identity. Finds that very interesting. [01:43:18] Speaker A: Yeah, not, not creepy at all. [01:43:22] Speaker B: Are you being respectful? [01:43:24] Speaker A: No, no, no, I'm, I'm being very respectful. I think that it's not creepy that he took the. He took the child's name and identity and, you know, terrorizes people in his name. I think that that's, that's, that's wonderful. He has a cool doll. Yeah, I mean, like, you know, I mean, you know, we're talking about Chucky, but, you know, Chucky's a pretender. I mean, you know, like, whatever, man. Robert. The doll's doing it for real. He's busting his ass cursing people in Robert's name. So just saying. [01:43:52] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That the guy that owned the doll, Robert, Eugene Otto, he was also an artist. If anyone was curious, he did other things. [01:44:02] Speaker A: Did he make other possessed dolls? [01:44:04] Speaker D: No, he was just an artist. I think he was a painter. [01:44:08] Speaker A: He was only known for the one. [01:44:09] Speaker B: There's something weird about us painting people. I'm just gonna say. [01:44:13] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think, I think us writers, we're mostly harmful to ourselves. You know, it's, it's, it's you painters, you gotta watch them. You know. [01:44:24] Speaker D: With all due respect, I'm looking at pictures of him right now. Oh, it's not stains. It is holes. His skin is covered in holes. [01:44:33] Speaker A: I could have sworn he had holes. Yeah, he's very weird looking. He looks almost like. Like he's made from foam or something. It's very, very eerie. And he has like a face, a creepy looking face. Yeah, yeah. People visit him. People visit him from all over the country and they report horrible things happening. And I mean, if you're trying to get divorced, I mean, he's probably cheaper than a marriage counselor, I guess. I don't know. [01:44:58] Speaker B: You know, as long as death. [01:45:00] Speaker A: Till death do us part. [01:45:01] Speaker D: What? My mom visited Robert and got divorced shortly after. She visited him on her honeymoon. [01:45:13] Speaker B: Maybe it's not even there. Reveals, like, maybe he reveals some sort of truth and people get out of really bad situations before it's, like, really bad. [01:45:23] Speaker C: Like, maybe he's doing the everyone therapy. [01:45:27] Speaker A: Yeah, I. I just think that. That Robert is doing a valuable service and, you know, we're lucky to have him on this planet. [01:45:33] Speaker D: You know, Robert's uncanny. [01:45:37] Speaker A: I think Robert the Doll is probably like, I didn't do any research on the Annabelle doll because I just don't care. Those movies suck. And the. What are their names? What are those two frauds? Ed and Lorraine. [01:45:48] Speaker B: Lorraine Warren. [01:45:49] Speaker D: Oh, I love them. They're so fraudulent. [01:45:53] Speaker A: Wait, do we like them? [01:45:56] Speaker D: I love them because they're fraudulent. [01:45:58] Speaker B: Yeah, they're so. They're so frauds. [01:46:00] Speaker A: Yeah. Thank you. They're not as bad or as fun as Zach Baggins, who was like, the king of the frauds. But yeah, Ed Lorraine Warren are just like next level frauds. And I just didn't care to look. Look into anything they did or were associated with. I don't care for those fucking. What are they called? The conjuring movies. I don't care for that. That dumb shit. That's fucking awful. So, yeah, Robert the Doll was the only one that really interested me. I think Jack had quite the rundown on good old Robert the Doll. Did anyone have anything they wanted to add about good old Robert? Any. Any. Any jokes they wanted to tell? Any marriages they wanted him to end? No, nothing. Okay. [01:46:39] Speaker D: Robert, I love you. You're my best friend. [01:46:42] Speaker A: Robert's great. Robert could come here. He can hate. What was that, Adrian? [01:46:46] Speaker B: Friends till the end. [01:46:48] Speaker A: Friends till the end. [01:46:49] Speaker D: Friends till the end. [01:46:50] Speaker A: Ends to the very end. I'm just hearing the Ice nine Kills song, assault and batteries. Now about Chucky now. It's pretty great. [01:46:58] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:46:58] Speaker C: Erica's like, yes, yes, yes. [01:47:00] Speaker A: Yeah, Erica. [01:47:01] Speaker C: I love them so much. [01:47:04] Speaker A: I would be remiss if I didn't mention Ira Levin's other significant novel and subsequent movie adaptation, the Stepford Wives. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Did anyone watch it or just us? [01:47:13] Speaker B: I have seen both versions. [01:47:16] Speaker A: It wasn't on the reading list. The book wasn't. Neither was the movie. I thought of it late in the game. We'll talk about it. I'll just do the rundown, actually. Adrian, do you want to do the rundown on it? Do you want to talk about it? [01:47:28] Speaker B: Basically, it's about these men who decide they're going to make perfect women and they take their women who have jobs or are busy or messy or like real humans, basically, and essentially turn them into, like. Well, in one version, they turn them into robots. In another version, it's a little different. But to make them like. It's the same thing as Rosemary's Baby. And it's kind of the same theme in where it's turning them into that, like, house mom, like the housewife, you know, the cooking, the cleaning, tending to your husband's needs. Like, that's all a woman should want. That's all she should be. That's all she should do. That should be her focus. Everything after that is arbitrary. [01:48:14] Speaker A: Yeah. So in introducing. Yeah, no, I think that was a good rundown, Adrian. And I think in introducing this work, this text, right. I think that I have a quote from Freud, actually, from the uncanny. Because we have, of course, an automaton, Right. But more importantly, we have a double, which he also identifies as a source for anxiety. The theme of the double, this is from Freud, has been thoroughly treated by Otto Rank. He has gone into the connections which the double has with reflections and mirrors, with shadows, with guardian spirits, with the belief in the soul and with the fear of death. But he also lets in a flood of light on the surprising evolution of the idea for the double was originally an insurance against the destruction of the ego, an energetic denial of the power of death. And probably the immortal soul was the first double of the body. This invention of doubling as a preservation against extinction has its counterpart in the language of dreams, which is fond of representing castration. Once again, we're talking about Freud. So, you know, by a doubling or multiplication of a genital symbol. The same desire led the ancient Egyptians to develop the art of making images of the dead and lasting materials. Such ideas have sprung from the soil of unbounded self love, from the primary narcissism which dominates the mind of the child and the primitive man. But when this stage has been surmounted, the devil reverses its aspect from having been an assurance of immortality. It becomes the uncanny harbinger of death. So, right, we have the Stepford Wives, which is, as Adrian said, a movie about a couple who moved to an idyllic location in Rosemary's Baby. It was the Brownford, this upper class, nice, cute apartment surrounded by movie stars and whatever interesting people in the Stepford Wives. It's the suburb of Stepford, suburbia, and all its. All of its awful associations. And she's stricken by the submissive nature of all the wives in the area. And they don't have hobbies, they don't read. All they do is bake. They clean and they ensure that their husbands are happy. That's the key thing. That's all they do. It's pretty. Yeah, it's pretty eerie. And like, you know, I imagine that, like, this movie might have been aimed directly at suburban women who might have watched it. The novel certainly was. You know what I mean? And they might have seen them themselves in those. Those robots. You know, you don't realize they're robots at first, but it's. You know, it comes to. It all comes out. She's horrified by the eerie wall of complicity she finds in the submissiveness of the other wives. They all seem robotic. They talk in the same tone. They share the same passion for shopping and baking. They want nothing more than to serve their husbands. When she runs to the library to research the town, she's shocked to find that all of those women were feminist leaders and professionals at some point. And while the novel employs similar domestic trappings and uncanny ways to Rosemary's Baby, the movie has a visual language all its own. When Joanna's only friend is replaced with a robot, Joanna stabs her, causing her to malfunction, repeating again and again, I don't know why you do that. And she just keeps saying it, I don't know why you do that. As she mindlessly attempts to place china teacups on thin air, as if she's stacking them or putting them in a dishwasher, but she just causes them to shatter on the spotless floor. I really must ask for this recipe, another robot wife mutters over and over again, wandering a party, repeating the meaningless phrase again and again. Conformity is put on parade and the joke is ultimately on the viewer. Those of us arriving for a comfortable middle class existence, striving for a comfortable middle class existence, can wonder what form that'll take, how we might react should we come face to face with our double, as Joanna does at the end of the film, her double built to perfectly slot into her role as a homemaker, not knowing too many words. Adrian, what's the word that archaic? [01:52:14] Speaker B: Mm. [01:52:15] Speaker A: So her friend is like. Like her educated reads. She says something like, oh, man, that all these fucking chicks are so archaic. And then, like when she's talking her friend and she's been stepfordized, she's like, everything's so archaic. And she goes, I don't know that word. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, Joanna's perfect version knows less words, has no ideas, has bigger breasts, and she's ready to serve and please and entertain. She's. She's an automaton. You know, and I don't know what's more uncanny than that being replaced with a robot. But I think more so than anything else, I mean, like, you know, I don't want to mistake the metaphor for the message. I think the idea of growing up and becoming a housewife like that has a sort of uncanny dread to it. I'm not a female. I was never faced with this. [01:53:12] Speaker B: And it makes you feel like you lose all personality. It's like, yeah, I, you know, went through a time period where I was not allowed to paint for 10 years. I had to clean and, you know, like, take care of the kids and all of that kind of stuff. Like, I can honestly say that the Stepford Wives, from a female perspective, especially having been in those circumstances for an amount of time, was probably one of the most horrific things ever. And you do, like, you say things to try not to sound so smart because you don't want to be threatening. Like, it's bizarre. [01:53:59] Speaker A: Fair. What did I want to say? Regardless, I do. I do think that, you know, the uncanny isn't the only thing I play in any of these. Right on the Stepford Wives, you know, it's a psychological drama, it's a thriller. It's a lot of things the same can go for Chucky. We will be here all day talking about the Chucky series, the Puppet Master series, all these things. However, I do think that Freud was onto something when he isolated the uncanny. He wasn't the first one, but his essay is pretty formative and pretty important, and it's what most people would have read. Right. And I do think that this. The uncanny element, tapping into subconscious things that we just pick up as human beings, really things that upset us in subtle ways. It's what makes a lot of these things like the Exorcist, Child's Play, or any of the things we've talked about. Thrum and really fucking work and stick with you. Oh, Chucky's scary. You know what I mean? So, I don't know. Jack, did you have anything you wanted to add on? You know, as we're wrapping up, I. [01:55:10] Speaker D: Highly recommend reading the Simplic. Simplica Girl Diary. It's very similar to the Stepford Wives, except more objectifying of women. I just think y'all should read that. [01:55:27] Speaker A: So that's. That's everything we have. I'm going to wrap up here. I'm King Loki. That's Daniel Sokoloff backwards. I edit Death Wish Poetry magazine and moderate this wonderful podcast. Check us out the winter edition is open till the 25th. Chances are I've edited this in time so there's still time for you to get your your fucking peace in I also write fantasy dark fantasy novels demonlandbooks.com read about Splinter and his Demon Prince friends. It's delightful stuff. Adrienne is an incredible painter. Her handle is in the is at the is in the description of this podcast and video. However you're watching it. Erica can be found at on Instagram at arisphatalis and Jack is a good morals with the with the 0 for the O also below. And now to cite our sources, the Uncanny by Sigmund Freud the Reason Kids Can Be the Creepiest Movie Villains by Noel Ransom the Exorcist by Peter Blatty Rosemary's Baby by Ira Levin the Stepford Wives, also by Ira Levin Revisiting the the Forbidden Pleasures of Resistant Reading by Dr. Brian Riley the History of Creepy Dolls by Linda Rodriguez and finally, a book sent by Ashley Sweeney, our Social media sorceress from Tucson Media cursed objects by J.W. oker. And, you know, special shout out, of course, to Ashley Sweeney and her company, Tucks In Media, for doing all of the visual work for our Instagram page, as well as the phenomenal, just incredible thumbnail for this particular episode of Demon Toast. With that said, love your demons, write the poems and stay spooky. Ave Satanis SA.