[00:00:01] Speaker A: Yeah. So ALF was telling me this funny joke. Yeah, you know I was.
Yeah.
You know. So what do you say to alf? What? How does it go? Oh, what's a monster's favorite founding father?
[00:00:13] Speaker B: I have no idea.
[00:00:15] Speaker A: It's Benjamin Franklin Stein. Hey, hey, hey. Get it. Like Benjamin Franken Franklin. Oh, no, I flubbed. I never flubbed. I meant to say that.
[00:00:26] Speaker B: I meant to say that. Oh, that's a different show from the early 90s.
[00:00:31] Speaker C: I didn't hear that joke before.
[00:00:34] Speaker A: Hey, hey, hey.
[00:00:35] Speaker C: Come on.
[00:00:37] Speaker A: Ridicule.
[00:00:38] Speaker C: I don't ridicule. No.
[00:00:39] Speaker A: All right, all right, alf. Okay. All right.
[00:00:41] Speaker B: I mean, that's about as funny as ALF was. So you're winning.
[00:00:46] Speaker A: My show was number one for, like, five years. I even got a TV movie, and.
[00:00:52] Speaker C: You ain't even joking. That show was on a long time.
[00:00:55] Speaker A: Well, welcome back to Demon Toast, where we have an ALF problem we discussed.
[00:01:00] Speaker B: We do have an elf problem.
[00:01:02] Speaker A: Gothic and horrific literature. And this is the official podcast of Death Wish poetry magazine. I'm your host, King Loki. With me is my co host, Adrian, and our special guest returning, John Dimes, also known as the legendary Dr. Sarcophagi.
[00:01:17] Speaker C: I'm so glad you. You. You pronounced that correctly both times. And I'm so proud.
[00:01:23] Speaker A: We're back to talk about Frankenstein again because we waited, like over a decade for this stupid movie and there's a lot to say about it, honestly. We could just turn this into the Frankenstein show and just talk. Talk about Frankenstein junk for the. Until the end of time. Marvel has a Frankenstein comic book. We're developing a new monster fangs based on the Bride, which is a movie.
[00:01:44] Speaker B: Starring Sting about Jennifer Beals, who's gorgeous.
[00:01:47] Speaker A: Jennifer Beals, Very pretty. She's not very monstrous in the movie. It's very 80s. You'll see. But, yeah, my point is there's Frankenstein dross and drivel that can go on forever. But Del Toro's movie deserves another look.
Yeah. So, you know, last week we didn't get to Adrian's, like, of the set trappings and artistic influences of the movie. And there are many. And Adrian being, you know, a very accomplished artist herself.
[00:02:19] Speaker B: Yes, mildly. I'm a mildly, somewhat like nobody artist. It's fine.
[00:02:24] Speaker A: That's not true. That's not true. She makes a living off her art. Many artists cannot do that.
[00:02:28] Speaker C: You're a wonderful artist.
Absolutely. For God's sake.
[00:02:32] Speaker A: She painted my book cover. That's behind me. That's my demon splinter right there. Adrian painted that. It's phenomenal.
[00:02:37] Speaker B: I can't really red right now, guys.
[00:02:41] Speaker C: Well, yeah, yeah, I mean, I, I get it. I totally get it. But, yeah, I love your artwork. I'm happy to be able to say that to your face because there's something like, I think I told you last time, like, sometimes people do stuff. I'm like, ooh, what do you think of my work?
[00:02:55] Speaker A: Yeah, you know, as an actor, personally, I, I'm. I try to be humble, but it's hard, you know? Have you seen what's on TV these days? It's.
[00:03:03] Speaker B: Yeah, it's not you, alf. It's not you. You are no longer on TV these days, my friend.
[00:03:08] Speaker A: These plebians don't appreciate how great ALF is.
[00:03:12] Speaker C: Okay, I go on tubi is Alphons. Alf, are you on tubi?
[00:03:18] Speaker B: I don't know. I don't get for the win again.
[00:03:22] Speaker A: All right, all right, all right. As I said, we have an elf problem. It happens.
[00:03:26] Speaker C: You need a big trap for that, I think.
[00:03:29] Speaker A: You know, I told him that we should cat here, and he just moved in.
It's unacceptable.
[00:03:35] Speaker C: But might want to put a little cat on the end of a big rat trap and that'll get him. I think he did like cats. Didn't he eat cats?
[00:03:43] Speaker B: To eat them? He eats cats. You could put one on the end of a stick and he'd be like, om, nom nom.
[00:03:49] Speaker A: It's turning into the ALF show. So, Adrian, tell me about, tell me, tell me about Frankenstein's mother's coffin.
[00:03:55] Speaker B: That was based off of the Fisk burial caskets, which were these metal ornate caskets designed specifically to preserve bodies from decomposing.
[00:04:08] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:04:11] Speaker B: They were pretty expensive at the time. It was for, like, you, you know, higher end people. But it was pretty interesting. And the fact that Del Toro used those in the film is kind of poignant because, you know, like, preserving.
It's a theme.
[00:04:28] Speaker C: Right, right, right, right. Let me tell you here in the Washington D.C. area, they dug really deeply under somebody's in an area. And underneath the pipes, drain pipes and all this old shit in D.C. they found a coffin with a glass face on it.
And everybody there treated that thing like it was the most superstitious item ever. And they were afraid of that thing. Afraid of that thing. It was awesome. It was awesome. But somebody eventually, at night, had broken the glass and just because they want, I guess, they wanted to see that body inside. And when you said that, it reminded me. When you said that and when I saw it in the movie, it reminded me of that glass faced coffin that was very popular. Very. Apparently popular with rich folks.
[00:05:19] Speaker B: You talk about glass coffins, and my immediate thought is Cemetery man, when he breaks the glass and just pulls her head off. And then Nagi and the little head are, like, talking, and he sets it in the tv. That's what I think of that. And, like, Snow White, of course.
[00:05:33] Speaker C: Well, when I think of glass coffins, obviously, I think of poor Miss Thing in Bram Stoker's Dracula. Francis Ford Coppola's Dracula.
[00:05:39] Speaker B: Lucy.
[00:05:40] Speaker C: Yeah, Lucy. I would hate to be. I would hate to decompose in a glass coffin.
[00:05:44] Speaker B: I would hate that, because then everybody could see it. Right. But I think it was based off of this principle of, like, death and beauty, you know, and, like, trying to stay beautiful even in death, because humans do have a very big fascination with that.
[00:05:58] Speaker A: Well, humans do. And miss. And Mr. Frankenstein in our story has a problem with death. Right. And decomposing. That's not something you want to do. Right. And the mother, man, I. In the book as well, but the mother is, I want to say, glorified to the level of fetishization. Right. You know, as I said in the last episode, he has a vision of his mother clothed in her burial gown with maggots and all that stuff. And it. It's pretty horrific for him. You know what I mean? And she's this specter that kind of haunts him throughout the book, implicitly and metaphorically. And, like, obviously in this movie, she's replaced with the. The red angel. Is it.
[00:06:37] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:06:38] Speaker A: Yeah. Which I. I mentioned. I believe it's surrounded by Promethean fire, which is very cool.
[00:06:44] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:06:44] Speaker A: But, like. Yeah, so his mother in this elaborate sarcophagus kind of thing, you know, I.
[00:06:52] Speaker C: Didn'T recognize that that was Mia Goth playing the mom as well.
[00:06:57] Speaker A: Wait, really?
[00:06:57] Speaker B: It's because they gave her eyebrows. It's okay. You have facial blindness. You have bird blindness.
[00:07:02] Speaker A: No, no, I actually do have facial blindness, but, Adrian, talk about that more, because that's kind of.
[00:07:06] Speaker C: That sounds amazing, because I didn't notice either.
[00:07:09] Speaker A: Yeah, you didn't notice either. You don't have. Yeah. You don't have the facial blindness.
[00:07:13] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. No. Mia Goth plays both the mother and Elizabeth in the film. They just dressed her and they added eyebrows to her to make her look like. And it worked. It made it. It made her look like a completely different person because that's the very.
[00:07:28] Speaker C: That's a very rare instance where I don't notice.
Like. Like, what do you want to say? What's his name? Chris Hemsworth. When he was in that Mad Max movie, I knew it was Chris Henworth, but that one little prosthetic thing changed him completely.
[00:07:46] Speaker A: Not only did it change him completely, it changed my perception of him.
[00:07:49] Speaker C: Well, he could act as ass off.
[00:07:51] Speaker A: That's what I'm saying. Like, like, look, Thor's my favorite character. I love Thor to death. And I think he's great as the character, especially when he's playing him with some gravitas. But in that movie, he was, as you said, a different fucking person. Like, he was a performer, yo.
[00:08:05] Speaker C: Yeah, he could act as an asshole.
[00:08:07] Speaker A: I turned to Dustin. I was like, who is Hemsworth in this movie? He's like, this is the fucking guy, the crazy guy, you know, he's one.
[00:08:14] Speaker C: Of the few dumb blondes where I'm like, wow, dude, food.
[00:08:21] Speaker A: Okay, so coffin big, elaborate.
It's not quite like celebrating death. Right. But it is pushing back against it, and it is a very, very, very aggressive motif in the movie. Right. Do we come back to the coffin? I don't remember.
[00:08:41] Speaker B: No, you only see it the one time, but it is like. It's so stunning and, like, breathtaking.
And the use of color in that scene with the white and the red, I don't even like that. It's not even my thing.
[00:08:55] Speaker A: Right.
[00:08:55] Speaker B: It is 100% my thing because I.
[00:08:58] Speaker C: Kind of thought that the father had his coffin, then mom had her coffin, and then dad had his coffin. And you're right, that was the last time you really got to see any of that coffin stuff. Because that was beautiful. Beautiful.
[00:09:14] Speaker B: Yeah, it was. It was. It was stunning. And also a real thing. It was based on something that was.
[00:09:22] Speaker A: So it was there to. So that the design of that coffin was to keep you from decomposing.
[00:09:27] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:09:28] Speaker A: And of course, Mr. You know, Victor Frankenstein wants to make decomposition not a thing at all.
[00:09:34] Speaker B: Yes.
Like his entire. Like, the whole thing for me, with the book, one of the reasons why I grew to love it, because I hated it the first time I read it and then the second time I read it in high school and it was my favorite, it's still my favorite book, is his, like, obsession with trying to cure death. Like death is a disease and treating it like that, which is kind of what starts, but then it goes, obviously, very many other places.
[00:10:03] Speaker C: Right. Yeah.
[00:10:04] Speaker A: Well, he's rebelling against his professor at first, you know, who laughs at his interest in magic and parcelsis and alchemy and all those dead sciences, as it were. I mean, this being, you know, the Romantic era, we were way past that stuff. But people were still looking back at it for art and poetry and things of that nature. So there was this romantic kind of fascination with that.
But, yeah, it does turn into this obsession with defeating death.
[00:10:33] Speaker C: And it's amazing to me that nowadays we are. You know, it's like, I do wonder how much the book has an. You know, it had an impact on actual science. Pretty much like Star Trek has had an actual impact on how now we have our flip phones and then flip phones to just all of our technology right there in our little hands. Has anybody ever made that. That correlation between Frankenstein and how modern medicine might have been impacted by it?
[00:11:04] Speaker A: Not really. Not really. It's more so that Frankenstein itself had a monstrous impact on how we think about science, though.
Like, you have the Michael Crichton, Jurassic Park. That is. That's Frankenstein. You have to, you know.
[00:11:20] Speaker C: Yeah. Yes, that's perfect. Yeah. Yeah. I hadn't thought about that until you said it like that. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:11:26] Speaker A: What's the Ed. What's the Edwood line from the Bride of the Monster? We trespassed in God's domain. You know, and it's funny coming from that. That cringe movie. Right. But, like, that's what all those things are, right? It's. We go a little too far.
[00:11:41] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:11:41] Speaker A: And then our creation gets out of hand, and before you know it, we have a T. Rex running around. I mean, come on.
[00:11:47] Speaker B: As much as the book was like a reaction to science and things and romanticism going on at the time, it was also Mary Shelley's reaction to having lost a child and postpartum depression as well, which has influence on Victor just completely being unwilling to ever even acknowledge that the monster is, you know, anything other than an abomination.
[00:12:17] Speaker A: Yeah. He's horribly disgusted by it.
This movie also, which we should focus on. But still, you know, talking about the book is always relevant. And we did touch on that last time. Right. We talked about how she lost her little baby. And she wrote about that extensively in her little. In her diary, which. I've never been a mother, but, you know, my mother did lose a child when I was a lot younger. And I can't even imagine, you know.
[00:12:41] Speaker B: Well, and that happened, like, pretty. It wasn't that long before the fateful night that she had at Byron's where they made the ghost story deal, which was, you know, she had the terrible nightmare. But speaking of that, I will bring it back around to some of the art used in the film, because Mary Shelley's mother was actually friends with Henry Fuseli. Who did the nightmare, like the painting where the nightmare is sitting on the chest. They were friends, so Mary Shelley was extremely familiar with his work. And that particular painting actually inspired one of the scenes from, you know, the novel, which Guillermo del Toro did kind of pay homage to a little bit in the film. It's absolutely beautiful.
[00:13:29] Speaker A: And by the way, if you're listening to this on Spotify or something, we are showing these things on the screen in the video version. So just saying, double dip, double dip. It can't hurt.
[00:13:38] Speaker B: I have. I saved all the pictures to send you to so you don't have to go crazy looking them up.
[00:13:43] Speaker A: Beautiful.
[00:13:44] Speaker C: Because when you. When you mentioned the nightmare painting, I mean, my. My brain. Because we talked about this last time.
[00:13:52] Speaker B: The movie, it went straight to gothic, which is. They use that exact thing in that film as well.
[00:13:57] Speaker C: Right, right, right, right. I. I swear, Gilbert del Toro loves to make callbacks to all of the influences in his. In his, you know, it's all is. And then, of course, it calls back to his other movies. Like I said, we were sitting there talking about how I think you said you didn't like Crimson Peak.
[00:14:17] Speaker B: I loved it.
[00:14:18] Speaker A: She loved it. I personally didn't. I felt like its script was a mess and it didn't really come together until the end when I was already done with it personally.
That's my opinion. Like, I. I don't really think that's representative of the average, you know, reading of that movie. Like, I kind of engaged with it on a very basic level. Ade loved it because Adrian is an artist. You know, talk about Crimson Peak, I'm. I'm cool with it. It's.
[00:14:44] Speaker B: I will say, you know, Dr. Sarcophagi actually made the comment how Crimson Peak and the new Frankenstein are very close together. Like, they're like next door neighbors.
Even an insect motif. They talk like the butterflies and all of that throughout the entire movie.
Like, you're right. Like, I think the movies kind of like merge in my mind.
[00:15:07] Speaker C: Same neighborhood, right down the street.
[00:15:09] Speaker A: The same neighborhood. I love that.
[00:15:13] Speaker C: Wanted a cup of sugar from, you know, Crimson Peak or something.
[00:15:16] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:15:16] Speaker A: And I think that that, like, looking at it through that lens, because those are things I think didn't work that well in this movie. But looking at it through the lens of, you know, this movie, borrowing from, you know, some visual language, if you will, from Crimson Peak might contextualize those things better. Like, I don't believe in watching movies in a vacuum. You know, I don't go for that death of the author shit. Where, oh, who cares what the author believed? Culture's taking this. Context matters. You know, if you want to understand something deeper, context, look at theory, look at what the writer was thinking, look at what the director was thinking. Look at his other movies, because you'll see patterns and commonalities. And that's a great reading, and I appreciate that very much. You know, which is why it's not just me on this show talking about things, because there's a lot I don't know.
[00:15:59] Speaker C: You know, one of the things that is always present in a lot of Guillermo del Toro's films is, I think I did say this last time, where you have these wonderful gentle moments.
Beauty with brutality.
The scene where the monster, the creature, is feeding a deer.
[00:16:20] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:16:20] Speaker C: And it was so beautiful. The next thing you know, pow. It's like, oh, fuck, the deer just got shot.
Guillermo del Toro loves to have.
It's not a jump scare. It's more like. It's sort of like what David lynch used to do, where everything seems normal, but there's something going on and about to go on. That's the reality beneath this reality. And watching that poor creature, the only way that he could exist is with other animals, if you want to call them an animal. And the way that Elizabeth treated the creature, like. Not like a child, but like another butterfly, another animal. And that's one of the things that I really liked about the movie was guillermoturo.
Guillermo Turo is like Clive Barker. He worships monsters. He understands Tim Burton is the same way.
If you were freak, you are going to appreciate the freaks more than the normal people in the movie, which is.
[00:17:25] Speaker A: Why we love monsters on this show and this magazine in general, I will say that, like, speaking of artists that really understand monsters, the biggest one right now, to me, besides del Toro, because I agree 180%. Like that troll market sequence in Hellboy 2, that's just him having a laugh. You know what I mean? That's just him having a blast.
The shape of water.
But, like, for me, another great example is James Gunn, believe it or not. Have you seen Creature Commandos, John?
[00:17:57] Speaker C: I read the comic book that he based it on because he had. That. He had Bride, who's like my favorite character. Grant Morrison created the Bride with the collie arms. But no, I heard Creature Commandos is amazing.
[00:18:12] Speaker A: So, yeah, I didn't read this. That's the Seven Soldiers of Victory.
[00:18:14] Speaker C: Seven Soldiers, yeah.
[00:18:16] Speaker A: Yeah, I haven't read that. I love Final Crisis. I had a great time with it, but I didn't get to all the Tie ins. But I should prioritize that because I know the Frankenstein monster is in it and stuff, but James Gunn, a guy who understands monsters, letting them play. Like, the way he writes weasel and the tragic nature of this little monster man, who is like a joke in the movie, but, like, he can't speak, but he has feelings and thought, thoughts and emotions.
[00:18:40] Speaker C: James Gunn is really good about that. I agree. I mean, because I haven't seen this, but he does that. Like, did you see Brightburn?
[00:18:49] Speaker A: I did. He didn't direct that, but he did produce.
[00:18:53] Speaker C: Okay, okay. Because I thought he wrote the screenplay, but you get my point. But.
[00:18:56] Speaker A: Yeah, I do get your point. Yeah.
[00:18:58] Speaker C: It's like you. It's like you feel bad for that kid, but you shouldn't.
[00:19:03] Speaker A: But you shouldn't. Yeah, yeah, he's a monster, but he doesn't. He's not in control of what he's doing. The thing I love about creature commandos, I recommend watching it. The way he writes the Bride.
Like, he does the creepy thing that they do in the movie, the Bride.
Spoilers for our review of Bride coming at you large and in charge. But he does the creepy Pygmalion Galatea thing where he creates the bride for his monster and then he's like, I like her, and he's fucking her. And that's what causes.
[00:19:33] Speaker B: Well, that's what they tried to do with the Kenneth Branagh one too, sort of.
[00:19:38] Speaker A: Yeah, that movie.
That's gonna need monster fangs sunk into it too, man.
That movie is just.
It doesn't have a. A nice one on a rider to save it either. It's just.
[00:19:49] Speaker B: It has hell in a Bonham Carter and.
[00:19:52] Speaker A: No, no, no Helen Bottom Carter.
[00:19:54] Speaker C: Because I think we might have brought that up last time if not Helen and Bottom Carter complete anything. The scene where, you know, she's. She's dancing with Kenneth Brown, her head flopping back and forth, and when she realizes what's going on, she's like, oh, hell no. That scene where she takes that. The lantern and she breaks it in that beautiful.
Which.
[00:20:21] Speaker A: Oh, you know, that movie. It really needs to take a Xanax and slow the down because it's like, I don't disagree. Like, I love that stuff. I loved that movie when I was like, a teenager. But, like, as an adult, I'm like, oh, my God, dude, I'm too old for this. Like, everyone talks with their eyes bulging out of their head. There's. There's a. What's the word? Embryonic. Fluid flowing. It's just.
[00:20:42] Speaker C: Yeah, that's that. That really. That scene with all of that. That embryonic flow. They're supposed to be a ballet of grizzliness, is what that was supposed to be. This is birth, and this is also, like, grizzly. And it's like everybody following around in soup. It was like a mud wrestling thing. It was supposed to be fun.
[00:21:01] Speaker A: Oh, it's real. Oh, it's fun.
It's fun. I'm just gonna cut to that scene too, which is funny, but during one.
[00:21:08] Speaker C: Of her texts I was talking about. My other favorite rendition of Frankenstein is the one in Van Helsing where he's nothing but a. He's nothing but a battery. He's a copper top. Battery.
[00:21:20] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:21:21] Speaker C: That movie is so funny. Everybody took it too seriously. I'm like, this is a comedy, John.
[00:21:26] Speaker A: I'm glad you said that. I'm glad you said that, because as an edgy teenager, I didn't like it. But then I watched it recently because I don't remember why, actually. Oh, it's because the Wolf man was coming out, and I decided, all right, let's watch Van Helsing. And I had a blast with it. It was like watching I Frankenstein.
[00:21:43] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:21:44] Speaker A: But it was like, I Frankenstein's grandpa, you know?
[00:21:46] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:21:48] Speaker A: Yo, the guy who directed it, Stephen Summers, I think he directed the Mummy, all the mummies. Yeah.
It's very competent. It aims at being cartoonish trash.
Does it Excellently.
Yeah, excellently. Sorry, I don't know what that was.
[00:22:04] Speaker C: You were putting the words. You were. You were saying excel and excellent and excellently.
[00:22:09] Speaker B: I heard I should be word. You're. You're turning into Shakespeare. You're making up your own words.
Life right there.
Yeah. If Shakespeare could do it, you can do.
[00:22:21] Speaker C: I wasn't judging because you. You felt passionate enough to put two words together. It was like watching you make a Reese's peanut butter cup out of a word.
[00:22:31] Speaker A: It's funny that it's. It's Van Helsing that gets me that excited. You know, all my learning and reading and writing, and that's where I go. Von Helsing, let me tell you. Like, that's the most 2003 movie ever. Yeah. Whenever the it came out.
[00:22:45] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:22:45] Speaker A: Okay.
Frankenstein, Del Toro. Frankenstein. Adrian, what else you got?
[00:22:50] Speaker B: Some of the costumes, because I'm a big costume nerd. And Kate, Holly actually designed a lot of the dresses that Mia Goth wears and stuff like that.
Inspired by Tiffany's work. The stained glass window. They were all like. The stained glass window maker.
[00:23:10] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:23:11] Speaker B: They were all designed. He Also did jewelry and stuff like that, but they were designed to look like. With the light. When the light would hit it, and, like, things would. She's literally a walking Tiffany lamp.
[00:23:23] Speaker C: Now. If they put out a book of that, and I got to get that.
[00:23:27] Speaker B: She actually is putting out a book on that. I looked it up today. I will find the information. She is a goddess costume designer. I will tell you. Like, she just blows me out of the water. And what she did with that and the inspiration that she used, like, just, wow.
[00:23:45] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:23:46] Speaker B: I've worked in costumes.
[00:23:51] Speaker C: Because, my God, when you saw Mia Goth the first time, you see her in the peacock feathers. Whatever. Whatever feathers there were in her hair. And that. That. That peacock. The.
[00:24:00] Speaker B: The parrot green dress, the green, purple, and gold dress. And that's another dress I would like to actually like, specifically, like, is a big standout for me because it rem me of a painting by Edward Burne Jones called Sidonia Von Bork. The patterns. And it's funny, because that painting has always stuck in my head. Like, the way that the dress falls, the pattern, like, that's exactly what it looks like. Also, when she's wearing the wedding dress and she's sitting in front of the mirror, like, combing her hair. That is another Rosetti painting called Lilith, which is actually based on the Lilith you think it is. But, like, a modern was almost like. It was totally like. I was. I was. I. It took my breath away. I'm not gonna tell you. I literally, audibly gasped when I saw that because, like, it was like, oh, my God. It's.
[00:24:53] Speaker A: Yeah. Find somebody who looks. Find somebody who looks at you the way Adrian looks at Del Toro's Frankenstein. I say, you know?
[00:24:59] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:25:00] Speaker B: You know?
[00:25:01] Speaker C: Yeah. I was like, that was obviously Bram Stoker's Dracula. I. I was pointing. Pouring all over the costumes in that matter of fact, I have the Ishioka, whatever her name is book here in my collection.
[00:25:14] Speaker B: Oh, yes.
Oh, my gosh. I know exactly who you're talking about. The muscle armor is just. But Lucy's outfit, I think, is my favorite. But there was a moment where the red dress that Mio Goth wears in Frankenstein was totally reminiscent of Lucy's red dress when she's walking down to meet Dracula when she's in the trance.
It has the line work and everything. And I was like, it's Bronster. I literally texted Dan as soon as I saw it, and I was like, it literally is a reinterpretation of Lucy's dress from that.
[00:25:46] Speaker C: And I felt like, again, I Felt like Ford Coppola's Dracula was next door neighbors to Crimson Peak and Frankenstein.
That's another reason why I loved it so much, because it felt like. It felt like, oh, they're in the same neighborhood. Like, Dracula could be coming down the street with the. Oh, that's crazy.
[00:26:08] Speaker A: Yeah. No, no, that's the thing. So the. So I actually have a box set with, you know, the Brownell Frankenstein and the Coppola Dracula. Those movies were marketed together. They have the same opening, like, with the. I think it's like a coffin. Like, not a coffin. It's a. It's like a gravestone with the title. And I'm Pretty sure the 2010 Wolfman opens in a very similar way, despite coming out, like, 20 years later, you know?
[00:26:31] Speaker C: Right, right, right, right.
[00:26:32] Speaker A: They're thinking was, we're doing a classic Universal thing, you know, Dracula, Frankenstein, the Wolfman. They aren't necessarily linked. They aren't necessarily together. However, because of the long shadow of the classic Universal era and Monster Squad, and I am counting the 70s TV show also because that also has Frankenstein, Dracula, and. And a Wolfman, these things are kind of conjugated in our mind. So here's where I'm going with this. We have Del Toro's Frankenstein. We have a terrible Wolfman movie from Blumhouse.
Is there a Dracula that goes with them to complete the set?
[00:27:11] Speaker C: What? I mean, a terrible Dracula.
[00:27:13] Speaker B: Nosferatu.
[00:27:14] Speaker A: No, not a terrible Dracula. Just a modern one. Is it Nosferatu.
[00:27:17] Speaker B: Nosferatu.
I would like to talk about the Christoph Waltz character in Frankenstein for just a tiny moment.
[00:27:26] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah, we. We. Yeah. I was kind of hard on that whole thing. I don't think it works completely. I called him that weird guy who ruined the laboratory scene. So. Yeah. I'm curious to hear what you have to say about that.
[00:27:38] Speaker B: Do you remember me making you watch that show, the Frankenstein Chronicles with Sean Bean?
Yeah.
[00:27:44] Speaker A: Yeah. I liked it for the most part. It's just a little, you know, go on British.
[00:27:50] Speaker B: But, you know, through the whole thing. I apologize for any spoilers. For anyone who hasn't seen Frankenstein Chronicles, you missed it by, like, over 10 years. Through the whole thing, his character is fighting the syphilis. Right.
So he has syphilis, and he's trying to fight it, and then he dies and comes back as the creature. Right. That's the end of the first season. There's a whole other season to go after that. But I feel like that is kind of where Christoph Waltz's character just, like, randomly kind of came From. Because a lot of, like, he. That's what he wanted because of this, because he did have syphilis, and it was a thing. So it was kind of paying an homage to that really amazing, like, BBC Frankenstein show.
[00:28:35] Speaker A: Should. Should del Toro be stealing that, though? I don't know.
[00:28:38] Speaker B: I don't know if he was stealing it. I think he was just kind of acknowledging it, because I don't think anyone other than me really watched it when it came out in the first place. Place.
[00:28:46] Speaker A: I mean, honestly, that. That is kind of a common thing to do, though. I mean, everyone had syphilis back then, you know? I mean, hell, I have syphilis now.
[00:28:52] Speaker B: You know, I'm telling Justin, waiting for you.
[00:28:55] Speaker C: Waiting for your teeth to come out and look like a. A garage door where it's, like, sticking out and you cross.
Okay, forgive me for going back to this Bram Stoker dragon. I remember when Ford Coppola kept saying that he wanted not to have sets at all, but have the costumes as sets.
[00:29:16] Speaker A: What a pretentious, weird thing to say. That movie is amazing. It is a marvel.
And I say this as someone who kind of thinks it's aged badly, but I don't care about that, because every single effect is. It's not just practical. It's. In camera, nothing is. Like that part where the train is going by and there's, like, a giant behind it. And you see Dracula's eyes. Yeah. On camera. That was a. That was a model train with a giant book and drag and Gary Oldman's eyes projected onto the back of it. The parts where he standing going, oh, I am Dracula. I am talking about my ancestors. And there's a shadow in the back, strangling his shadow.
[00:29:55] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:29:56] Speaker A: All in camera. So that's amazing. So, yes.
[00:29:59] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:30:00] Speaker A: I am not a hater. I love that movie. And my favorite costume is the one that Winona Ryder wears when she walks out into the garden. You know, it is the white.
[00:30:08] Speaker C: The white.
[00:30:09] Speaker B: It's, like, whitish green. When she's chasing Lucy out into the garden scene and she's not wearing.
[00:30:15] Speaker C: You would look at her boobies.
[00:30:17] Speaker B: Yes. That's exactly what he's.
[00:30:18] Speaker A: Oh, you see a lot more than just that.
I first saw that movie when I was, like, 11. All right. Like, this is what I did, you know?
[00:30:25] Speaker C: You filthy, wonderful creature, you teenage boy.
[00:30:28] Speaker A: What can I say? I regret nothing.
[00:30:32] Speaker B: I can't leave here without saying one thing. I would like to talk about the scene in Frankenstein where the creature and Frankenstein, like, the creatures, like, reaching out to him. It is straight up based. And even Guillermo del Toro admits that he did use Michelangelo's the Creation of Adam as inspiration for that specific scene. Yeah, I'm going to tell you, I think that scene is prettier than the actual painting.
That's a hot take.
[00:31:06] Speaker A: That is a very hot take. But del Toro is very big on that kind of thing. I mean, like, I love to talk about Pacific Rim, which was, you know, del Toro is a giant monster, giant robot movie. His love letter to Godzilla and Evangelion and other animes. And, like, he directly referenced the. The painting's name escapes me. I think it's called the Titan Rising from the Sea, but it's a giant coming out of the sea, like a. As in, like, Greek mythology giant. And, like, he really wanted to evoke the majesty of a giant in Pacific Rim. I'm not sure he was successful, but that's what he was aiming for. And I think intentions are important, you know, when you're making art, you know.
[00:31:44] Speaker C: Right. I mean, the man clearly is an artist himself. He has a. I think he has a. That there's a. There's a book of curiosities. I think it's called Guillermo del Toro's Book, of course.
[00:31:54] Speaker A: Yeah. We were just looking at it. Yeah.
[00:31:55] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:31:56] Speaker C: And I love the fact that he draws every damn thing he wants, because Tim Burton's the same way. Matter of fact, David Lynch, Tim Burton, Guillermo del Toro, all artists. And you can tell because sometimes the story doesn't necessarily even in dot to movies, sometimes the story isn't always, but everything is carried by the visuals, and the visuals are inspired and formed by really vivid artist imaginations, you know?
[00:32:28] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm glad you said that, too, because, like, I feel like the first, like, you know, hour of Frankenstein is. It's a little rough. It's not perfect. It could probably use an edit, and, you know, it's not even that hot of a take. Like, my boyfriend, he hated this movie.
[00:32:43] Speaker C: Really.
[00:32:44] Speaker A: He didn't even like the good parts, which he's entitled his opinion. My boyfriend's very smart. We had him on an episode where we talked about annihilation, actually. He was very insightful. Yeah.
[00:32:55] Speaker C: Anyway, you said your boyfriend hated Frankenstein.
[00:32:58] Speaker A: My boyfriend hated Frankenstein. But I. My point in bringing all this up is that he's not dumb. He loved, for instance, Nosferatu, like, while we were walking out of the theater, and I was like, man, that was great. He's like, really? You were laughing at all the dialogue. I'm like, yeah, but I loved it. It was Fucking great. And I was like, explaining them, like, oh, well, this is a Gothic, you know, so there's gonna be some comedy of manor stuff. There's gonna be some. Some light world building to get you into the way people talk and speak, and lots of shots of castles and parties and people drinking wine and going crazy and then some.
And then I'm like, oh, wait, you know that already. We saw Nosferatu and you loved that because Nosferatu is also a true Gothic, you know, So I think Nosferatu is a little different, though, because Eggers is not del Toro. No, Eggers is. He is also an autor. But del Toro is in a place, and I think we said this last time, he's in a place where people aren't going to say boo to him. He's Guillermo del Toro. He made Pan's Labyrinth. He made Kronos. He made the Shape of Water.
He's like George Lucas. It's like when George Lucas was making the prequels. And, like, you look at the behind the scenes and everyone looks scared while they're watching the. The, you know, the. The rough print of the Phantom Menace, and it's bad. And they're like. They look like they're about to start pointing fingers, you know, And I can't even imagine what.
[00:34:17] Speaker C: What bad is. I mean, carry on, because I want to go into a whole.
[00:34:23] Speaker A: So I'm. I'm just so. Okay, it is my opinion, my stated opinion. And please, at me if you disagree. I mean, you know, by all means, I'd love to argue with people on the Internet about Del Toro's Frankenstein. And I am someone who loves it. But I think the first part is. Is. Is very slow. I think Oscar Isaac is very hammy. I think he's. I think he's kind of miscast, to be honest with you. I think he's too old for the part.
I think the stuff with William. We talked about this last time, but I'm happy to rehash. For people who are just tuning in now, the stuff with William is glossed over. It's. I don't even understand why it's in the movie. The fact that Elizabeth is his lover and not, you know, Victor's girlfriend or wife or whatever, that's very weird. And it goes nowhere. The stuff with William, it's just nothing. It could have been cut from the movie.
Even the stuff with the father preferring William to Victor, not really explored. Like the sequence where Charles dances, you know, striking the young Victor in the face rather than the hands, because what does he say vanity is in the face? Right, That's a great scene. That's all you needed. But like, all that stuff with William went nowhere. And then we have the Christoph Waltz weirdness where he's just some weird guy yelling about syphilis in the middle of the dramatic scenes in the movie. Yeah, it's very frustrating. But again, once the monster, once we transition to his story, the movie, the movie becomes a different beast, a different creature altogether.
[00:35:41] Speaker C: You know, I think that's probably the point that you kind of understand the vapidness of Victor Frankenstein. You know what I think about? I think I agree with you about so and so being too old at the same time that what's his name was too old for Unbreakable.
[00:36:02] Speaker B: Bruce Willis.
[00:36:04] Speaker C: Bruce Willis, Yeah. He was too old to be playing a guy who doesn't know that his weakness is water. You know, I'm like, dude, you're what, 50? However, I think the way that the story was broken out, you get to see how much of a self absorbed fop Victor Frankenstein was.
And then you get to see you. You. The movie is supposed to make you feel only sympathy for the creature. Like we said before, you are supposed to feel only sympathy for, quote, unquote, the devil. And so when the creature shows up to tell his story, you get a well balanced, well rounded story, a well rounded being, a well rounded interpretation of the facts. So you only see chaos with Victor. You see chaos. You see how chaotic Victor is. He creates chaos, whereas the creature is doing nothing but trying to create harmony, which is, which eludes him because everybody around him is a bunch of fucking nutcases. I'm like, when you look at him, you're going, yeah, he's got scars in his face. And yeah, he's kind of scary, but if you wait a few minutes, you go, well, he's kind of hot and he's got long hair.
[00:37:28] Speaker A: So. Okay, here's my thing. I don't, I don't disagree with anything you said. Really. My issue is that the movie's over two hours and change. I mean, it's almost three hours long and the Victor stuff is kind of boring. I. I love watching, you know, a megalomaniacal spiral into destruction, you know, as much as the next person.
[00:37:48] Speaker C: But, yeah, you know, you seem better, is what you're saying.
[00:37:51] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
In fact, I would say that Ex Machina is a good example and that had Oscar Isaac.
[00:37:58] Speaker B: We talked about that.
We.
[00:38:01] Speaker A: Yeah, we definitely touched on it. And I don't, I don't think it's a big deal to rehash it here. I'm just saying that, like, I love this movie. I think it's fantastic. I just think that it's a bit much and it's not for everyone. I loved it. I thought it was great. But here's the thing, right? If we're just looking at. On its critical merits. Yeah. Like, I can. I can talk about its themes and the things that didn't work for me and the execution of, like, you know, Victor's Eureka moment. Or we could talk about it from Adrian's perspective, which is the set design, the costumes, the visual language of, you know, of referring to art through costume, you know, Adrian, do you have more of that to talk about?
[00:38:35] Speaker B: I mean, Guillermo del Toro actually constructed all of the sets for Frankenstein based off of Arthur Rackham's paintings. He did Peter and Alice in Wonderland. Like, Arthur Rackham was just right after the parapha lights. And he is. I actually own one etchings. He's one of my favorites. And I guess del Toro just so Frankenstein.
[00:39:03] Speaker A: Well, I wanted to say. So, you know, what can you tell me about Frankenstein's, like, his. His desolate tower where he brings the monster to life? Is that a reference to anything besides Evangelion? Of course.
[00:39:16] Speaker B: Well, I will tell you.
According to one of my favorite real life monster hunters, Radu Florescue, who wrote this book, In Search of Dracula, that tower is actually based off of the real castle, Frankenstein, which actually really exists in real life. And he was a German doctor, and the tower is referential to that. Plus, towers are always supposed to get you closer to heaven to get the lightning.
[00:39:44] Speaker A: So when you say that towers are meant to get you closer to heaven, you mean an art, right?
[00:39:51] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:39:51] Speaker A: In art, if I paint a tower, I'm evoking this union between symbolism.
[00:39:56] Speaker B: I mean, someone might just paint a tower just to paint it and not have any symbolism. But if we're going from a symbolic perspective.
[00:40:03] Speaker A: So Victor. And like, let's be clear in the book, I don't think he goes into detail at all about his little laboratory. However, in the 30s movie, and I think in the Kenneth Brunel movie, it is a tower.
[00:40:16] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:40:17] Speaker A: And so that is a tradition that has been carried out. And I never thought about it in those terms of, you know, not just a biblical reference, but a visual one. Right.
Like we're playing God up high.
Very cool, Adrian. Yeah, Very neat.
[00:40:34] Speaker C: Thank you.
[00:40:34] Speaker A: Very neat analogy.
[00:40:35] Speaker B: That makes me feel smart. By the way, guys, I highly suggest picking up In Search of Frankenstein by Radu Florescue. He. He was remarkable.
[00:40:45] Speaker C: Okay. Yeah, I think I definitely want to watch the movie again. And. Yeah, have you, have you both sitting on my shoulder in my, in my, in my imaginary mind looking at more at the costumes because I knew there was a lot of symbolism in the costumes with, with Ms. Thing wearing all of those parrot colors and animal things and prints and then having, and then thinking about the, the first part of the movie as opposed to the second part of the movie, because I was just so dazzled that it existed to begin with that I could probably go in there with the, with a fresher pair of eyes. A critical eyes.
[00:41:25] Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. So understood. So that's Frankenstein. Do watch it on Netflix. Do check it out. Check out all the books we linked. Also, honestly, if you're listening to this on the podcast and you're not watching it on YouTube, all the paintings that we referenced in movies and stuff, I'll link, I'll. I'll post them below so you can peruse them at your own leisure. It'll definitely enhance your watching of the movie. That being said, I'm King Loki. Check out Death Wish Poetry magazine. Watch all our episodes like and subscribe. Whatever. You know what to do.
If you want to read my books and my poetry. Demielandbooks.com you can also hire
[email protected] I do editing and, you know, writing, coaching and all that. Narish K. Adrian is of course an accomplished painter herself and she sometimes does commissions. Her Instagram is below also. She is also the chairperson and founder of the Horror Art Film Society of Amarillo and the managing editor of the Goblin Crypt Art and Culture magazine. So check all those things out. Links below. And John, Mr. Sarcophagi, I do a.
[00:42:30] Speaker C: Lot of stuff also arton. Also writing Amazon.com all that stuff. Yeah, I'm everywhere.
[00:42:38] Speaker A: Links below.
John does a lot of cool video content.
We love him.
John, you sure you don't love anything else? Write poetry, make art. Love your demons. Ave Satanas. Happy spooky season. It's forever.
