Interview with Eyajo December Joseph!

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hey there. King Loki, the editor of Death Wish Poetry magazine with an actual living legend. Today we have Ie Ho December, Joseph the well, the writer of One Death Box, One fable, an incredibly, incredibly evocative book of gothic, beautiful, exquisite poetry. And I want to say it's accompanying musical album, Feast of Bats. [00:00:28] Speaker B: Cool. Yeah. [00:00:30] Speaker A: Yayo. How you doing? [00:00:32] Speaker B: Good, I'm doing good. How are you? [00:00:34] Speaker A: I can't complain. I mean, it's so amazing to be talking to you. I listened to you back in high school. You know, for those who don't know, this is one of the co founders of the legendary. I think of it as a goth band, but would you describe it as like something else? [00:00:50] Speaker B: You know, we've been described. Yeah, we've been described mostly. That band was mostly described as death rock when we were doing it. And then, Then, then it fell in some of the goth rock and sometimes horror punk. So I don't. [00:01:03] Speaker A: Who cares about genres? They're just there for fucking, you know, kind of. [00:01:06] Speaker B: Yeah, they just. Somebody wants to put on their playlist, so they just say it is this. [00:01:09] Speaker A: You know, it's this or that. Yeah. Did you write Alice in Gothland? [00:01:13] Speaker B: Wrote the lyrics for that. [00:01:15] Speaker A: Wrote the lyric. [00:01:16] Speaker B: Yeah, that was something. That was something Dan came up with. Yeah, but it was cool. [00:01:20] Speaker A: Every Day is Halloween. That was a cover, right? [00:01:23] Speaker B: You know, it was a cover. A ministry cover. [00:01:25] Speaker A: That's what I thought. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What's the other one? I was Black Dahlia. Another great one. Did you write that? [00:01:31] Speaker B: No, that. That one was Daniel. I think I wrote some of the lyrics on that. [00:01:36] Speaker A: Okay. Okay, gotcha. [00:01:38] Speaker B: I'd have to remember how it goes again when I hear the song. Then I remember. Okay. I wrote those lyrics because Dan. Because Dan did write some of the songs. Some of those songs all by himself. Lyrics too, so. [00:01:47] Speaker A: Sure, yeah. I mean, also incredibly talented guy. [00:01:50] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I know that Dan came up with that song usually a lot of times too. If he came up with a song, like a title or something, he'd say, hey, yay. Oh, there's a title. Write some lyrics to it. So there we go. I mean, try to do some. I tried to throw some of my music out there with. Dan would be like, oh, that's kind of horror soundtrack. So Astro Vamps kind of already had its kind of like little, you know, quirky, campy. I call it kind of campy, but still death rocky, you know, death rock, goth rock, whatever. He. We kind of had that sound. So I just thought, you know what? That's fine. I'LL write some lyrics to my comp co. Write songs as lyricist, and then I'll someday do my own project or projects. Whatever. You know, whatever happens. [00:02:37] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:02:39] Speaker B: But yeah, that was. The band was fun. Was definitely fun. [00:02:44] Speaker A: Yeah. I will say I. I am enjoying your new musical project, Black Heroine Gallery, a lot more these days. And it might just be that I'm a more mat now, but it feels a lot more personal. It feels a lot more inspired, and I love some of the recurring motifs before I ask questions and just spout my own analyses. I mean, do you want to tell me a little bit about. About a feast of bats or. [00:03:07] Speaker B: Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, I. I think it's kind of like. I mean, we. We kind of. We got voted like the best goth rock album of 2022 from like, and like. Like a radio station in Italy and a few other podcasts and stuff, which was kind of cool. [00:03:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:03:25] Speaker B: But they. I think the. Is definitely a sound that's evolved, you know, and I think it's more goth rock than. Than more goth rock than the first one. But it's. But it does have edge and simple fact that I write kind of odd stories and then I go ahead and put them to music because I wrote all those songs on. And the first album I played the guitar. The. This album, Crystal played guitar and. And he. I would just write it acoustically and then play the acoustic progression. And then, you know, I'd have him go ahead and, you know, put distortion and do the other things to it. But lyrically it's got again back to storytelling, you know? [00:04:04] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:04:05] Speaker B: Like, for instance, that first song, I Cover Her Horns. That was based. I don't know. It's one of my favorite books. Really weird book. Might want to read it or listen to it on tape or something. Urantia. I don't know if you ever heard of the book. Urantia. [00:04:19] Speaker A: Urantia. [00:04:20] Speaker B: You. You Rancha urantia. [00:04:24] Speaker A: Okay. [00:04:25] Speaker B: Yeah. Paper 53 was the Lucifer rebellion. It's supposed to talk about God and the super universes and stuff like that, but it's supposed to have been made. Written by Automatic Writing too. But that first song was kind of inspired by some of the. The verses in that book. [00:04:48] Speaker A: And then it's an incredible piece. I love it. Like, that's the first song on the album. It's not the first song in the book, of course, but right. Like, right when they threw her from the circus train Wrapped in cowhide in rusty chains Blinded by an astronaut like, whoa. Like that language takes you choke dancing it's fucking crazy, you know, and it's the way you. It's the way you. You sing. You sing like a, like a, like a banshee or a ghoul or something. It's so fucking beautiful, you know. [00:05:19] Speaker B: Well, thank you. That's a good description. Yeah, I like that. Yeah. Actually, that song and then especially that beginning area that you just talk about. I've had a lot of people say, whatever you're doing there. I like, you know, I'm like, okay, cool. [00:05:35] Speaker A: Yeah, it's. It's hard to describe, but I mean, you know, you. You pull us into this world of circuses and toads and monster girls and it's. It's captivating in a way that like, it feels like a world I desperately want to visit and live in, you know? It's so cool. And there's a few songs in here that make me wonder, like, so you think I'm mad and. Well, a few poems, I should say. Madness. Yeah, madness. I think I like it. Mad. Uncertain but sure of everything that ever was. Slipping into madness. Sure. Fun. I'm falling through other people's minds. And like, I wonder, like, are you setting yourself up as the storyteller of this like, surreal, benighted place? [00:06:16] Speaker B: Yeah, a lot of times I'll take on the personalities of the. A lot of times those things are from the point of view of the actual monster or derelict or, you know, fringe of, I don't know, monster Tom or something, you know, So I kind of try to jump into how they would come out of talking about it. And sometimes I'm the observer looking into that world. [00:06:38] Speaker A: Yeah, sometimes I have to say, your drawings really make this. They really tie it together. [00:06:44] Speaker B: Well, thank you. [00:06:45] Speaker A: So death finds his beloved. It has two. Right. You have the one that is meant to be like Death and the Medusa, right? With. And it's. I'm just gonna hold it up for the camera because I mean, look at that. Look at his glasses and her face. I mean, it's just beautiful. But then at. In the back of it, right at the end of it, we see another version where Death is this like mysterious white rabbit headed man in front of a full moon. And there's Medusa with her face obscured by her. By her. Well, no, her face is not obscured by the snake. She's wearing a mask though. It's. Or maybe that's like really intense mascara. I don't know. But it's so fucking. [00:07:23] Speaker B: No, it's a mask. [00:07:24] Speaker A: It's a mask. Okay, cool. Word of God. Here. Right. You know, do you. Do you. Do you. Do you just. Do you hand draw these all in one go, or do you sketch them? You know? [00:07:33] Speaker B: Well, I have to sketch them out a little bit. Yeah. [00:07:35] Speaker A: Yeah. Some of these are really detailed. [00:07:38] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, once I got the sketch, the. The final kind of the outline sketch of what I want, then the detail, then. Then it's all. It's all one thing. I don't have to keep sketching anything. [00:07:50] Speaker A: Right. [00:07:50] Speaker B: I just sketch to kind of get my composition right, you know? Which one? [00:07:56] Speaker A: There was one that really had me going. It was. It was the one about the. Hang on. It's not this one. It's twig skeleton. That. That piece is crazy. The song is crazy, too, but, like, yeah, he's a little twig skeleton who's trying to get to Nokfe Land, and he's riding a hognose snake and he tries to go to the. The Toad King, but, fuck, he's been the Toad King got eaten by the snake and look at that. It's incredible. [00:08:30] Speaker B: Yeah, that's the twig skeleton. The funny thing is I kind of have a bigger. A longer illustration version of that, and that was just kind of like a little song version. But there's actually kind of a short story of that, and it's almost written. I mean, it's written enough in characters that I was able to do an illustration story. And some more of those illustrations will be in the next edition of this book, which will definitely. Right now it's going to probably be another 60 or 70 drawings and another, I don't know, maybe 100 pieces. Pages of literature. So. [00:09:06] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, that's exciting. I mean, I'm going to need that, too, so, you know. [00:09:11] Speaker B: Yeah. Don't worry. You're on the list. [00:09:13] Speaker A: Okay. I do notice that the poem of yours that we published, Tapping the top of her Coffin, is in here. So that's pretty cool. I, you know, I was like, oh, it's here. [00:09:21] Speaker B: Yeah, it's. Yeah, you're right. It's in there. [00:09:24] Speaker A: Yeah. That's pretty cool. That's pretty awesome. Oh, how would you. How would you describe. So would you describe these as, like. [00:09:33] Speaker B: Companion pieces, say, in a way? Yeah. Because all my lyrics were kind of, like, poetic, you know, or they're narrative. But as you've seen in there, like, I cover oranges closer toward the back of the book. It has a drawing that I put in there with it, too. So I would say so, because I have songs in there that I've written as that Are poems, but there haven't been put to music yet. [00:09:54] Speaker A: Yeah. I noticed that there are subtle differences in some of these. You will actually take the chorus and only put it at one point instead of repeating it over and over again. Because it's not a song at that point. It's just a poem, you know? [00:10:06] Speaker B: Right. And, you know, the funny thing is, I think one time I bought some. Some CD and something, and I noticed that this artist was not repeating the chorus when he wrote it down, you know, And I thought, well, yeah, that makes sense. I like that better. You know, sometimes I do like the song. This song. You know, actually, I might make that into a song, which is prayer, which is in there, which. I really like that poem. [00:10:34] Speaker A: Yeah, it's a good one. Let me flip to it. It's page 110, I think it's so good. Fairies ride fallen leaves and a whirlwind to our world Kings, queens, lords and ladies from lands far away west They've come to hire witches the ones that spell the best it's awesome. And, yeah, there is a picture that goes with it, you know, I love it. It's so fucking cool. Is that. Is that meant to be one of your monster witches? [00:10:59] Speaker B: Yeah, just one of those. Okay. I gotta make it. I mean, I think my mind is unlimited for creature design. [00:11:07] Speaker A: Yeah. You know, I wanted to ask, actually, because I really like the bit about the junkyard astronaut, but I noticed. Where is it? Yeah, 82. I'm pretty sure this is where it is. Yeah, it's the boy who married the spider girl. Is this the junkyard astronaut or is that just a guy with a diver's helmet? [00:11:26] Speaker B: That's a diver helmet. [00:11:28] Speaker A: I thought so. Yeah. Okay. [00:11:29] Speaker B: Yeah. His face is really weird. She doesn't get to see it until the end. [00:11:33] Speaker A: Right, right, right, right. Very cool. You know, I was a little miffed because I listened to that song first before I read the book. Of course, I was a little like, oh, no, he didn't draw the girl with the spider face. You know, maybe that'll be a little bit. [00:11:49] Speaker B: I put her in there with four eyes. That was kind of the spider. [00:11:52] Speaker A: Okay, okay. See, I'm imagining the mouth parts, you know? [00:11:56] Speaker B: Yeah, I thought about that. But I thought that that's probably what everybody would do. So I thought, let me just. Just put the eyeballs, you know, that way, you know how the freak show sometimes will give you a name and you don't look really like anything like the name they gave you, but, you know. So that was kind of where I was going with that, so that's really cool. [00:12:13] Speaker A: Yeah. For some reason, when I looked at it, I thought they were spider bites, so. Yeah. [00:12:20] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, you'll probably. Some, like. Like I said, in future editions, I will kind of like switch, like, shift up the paint out of the pictures. I'll throw in different pictures here and there, you know, or I'll draw a new picture. So anybody that does follow that work, this should definitely try to get each edition because there'll be different drawings in them. [00:12:43] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:12:44] Speaker B: Not. Not for everything, but for, like, that poem in there. The Battle on Troll Hill. [00:12:50] Speaker A: Yes. [00:12:50] Speaker B: Yeah. It's got that little troll at the end that I made up. Their little river troll, that one. I'm actually going to do a larger drawing, so. So that one right away is going to have a new drawing in it. There's a. There's just to go off the subject. There's a. There's a world I created called Knock Failing, and it's this dark fairy world. And I created it years ago, like, in the early 80s. And I wrote about it in poems, in a few poems, and most of those poems have rewritten a little bit, but. But have survived enough to be printed in that book. [00:13:24] Speaker A: Huh. You know, it's interesting that you say that, because Knock Valen is, of course, referenced a few times in here. But I really like that you don't just write these, like. You don't just write, like, these. You know, like, there's the one about the. The gargoyles. You know, they're not all just monsters and dead things and, you know, things like that. Like, there are straight up, like, fantasy stories here. Like, I was just looking at the Courtship of the Centaur Prince and the Raspberry Muse, and, like, look at. I mean, obviously you've seen it. You fucking drew this. But, like, you know, for anyone watching this, like, she's not just making out with the centaur, she's riding on him. And that's such a wonderful bit of, like, I want to say world building, but just, like. [00:14:05] Speaker B: Right. [00:14:05] Speaker A: Use of creative elements, really. And it's. It's. It's so refreshing to see because, like, you know, like, you're not just indulging with things that are creepy and look dark. Like, you're engaging with things that you think are beautiful, which includes toads, you know, girls with four eyes, and trolls and centaurs and things like that. You know what I mean? [00:14:26] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. And, yeah, you're right. In dead things. [00:14:30] Speaker A: Well, you know, lots of dead things in here. [00:14:34] Speaker B: And Somebody said, why do you write so much? Death? Death. I'm like, I don't know, it's just kind of beautiful to me. Death, you know, it's been amused forever. [00:14:42] Speaker A: Yeah. Been amused forever. And it's. Oh, yeah. And here's your little troll. So you're going to expand this little guy, right? [00:14:48] Speaker B: Yeah. I'm going to give it a large picture, like the centaur prince one. I'm going to give it a large picture. [00:14:55] Speaker A: Really? That's awesome. [00:14:57] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:14:57] Speaker A: I do love the Battle of Troll Hill, too, because it has that. It has that Tolkien feel to it where he doesn't really care for, like, the decorum. Like, I'm not talking about the Lord of the Rings. I'm talking about, like, the Fall of Gondolin where he's describing the trolls breaking through the. Through the, you know, the gates and so on, and he's not interested in meeting your sensibilities. It's verbose, it's. It's bombastic and it's exciting, you know? They scream with an eerie, cryptic prayer to the dark one, Zenothus. They head toward the hill. As they hover out of the. Out of the water, flag bearers chain themselves to the troll priests. It's, like, so cool. [00:15:33] Speaker B: Thank you. [00:15:34] Speaker A: Not in a dnd way. Like, in a this is haunting and creepy way. [00:15:39] Speaker B: You know, by the way, you. You did pronounce that, that. That fairy God's name just right. That's exactly how you pronounce it. [00:15:48] Speaker A: Good, good, good. All those years studying, you know, English paid off, right? [00:15:52] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. You got it. You got it. That was cool. [00:15:58] Speaker A: The goblins leap into battle. The hill becomes slippery with blood, Slippery with the blood of trolls. Ding dong, the war bell tolls. And that's how you leave us there. It's crazy. It's so cool. So goddamn so. I don't know. How would you. How would you describe, like, one death box, one fable? And of course, this is a drawing that's in the book, right? [00:16:20] Speaker B: Yes. [00:16:21] Speaker A: How would you describe that title? I mean, you know, and what's the deal with these little dudes you added? I love them. They remind me of happy noodle boy from Johnny the Homicidal Maniac. If you ever read that. [00:16:31] Speaker B: I. I don't know if I read it. I have seen it a few times. [00:16:34] Speaker A: Okay. [00:16:36] Speaker B: I mean, I. I've looked through some of the books and stuff, but. [00:16:39] Speaker A: Sure. [00:16:41] Speaker B: At the Golden Apple Comic Store down here in Hollywood. [00:16:45] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [00:16:46] Speaker B: They have some of those. [00:16:47] Speaker A: Sure. Of course. Yeah. I mean, it's a classic. I mean, you know, Jonan Vasquez. I mean, he made Invader Zim, of course. So I think that raised the profile of that book by a fair bit. But, you know, I mean, like, you know, how would you describe this book, really? You know what I mean? Because, like, I find myself, like, struggling to really articulate what I think about it. But, you know, one Death Box, One fable. Right? What is that? How did you arrive at that title? You know what I mean? Because titles can be hard, you know, really hard. [00:17:12] Speaker B: No, I do agree with you, because I believe me, I had. I definitely wrote. Came up with a number of other titles. Yeah, I saw the one. The One Death Box, One Fable was. I think it just kind of hit the scope of what. Of kind of water. What everything was going. Not going for, but what everything accumulated to be. Like a lot of times, like I said, a lot of my. Most of my writings, I did kind of like write different stories about death or poetry about death. Not always. Death is something as commonplaces we all might know. But it's fantastical or more surreal or beautiful or dark or, you know, disdainful or whatever you. Dreadful. Whatever you. Whatever that you might make of it. And the fable was the fact that I. I just love fables. I love fables and fairy tales and nursery rhymes. They always kind of creep me out, you know, but in a good way. You know, when I was little, I always. When I. Somebody where there's a book of nursery rhymes. And like, I mean, look at the poet, James Whitcomb. James Whitcomb Riley. I don't know if you're familiar with him, but he wrote that poem Little Orphan Annie. And, you know, and in that. In part of the. In part of that poem, it would say, the goblins will get you if you don't watch out. Well, that scared me when I was little. So. And I just. I was so intrigued by, you know, poets and nursery rhymes and. And fables because they were kind of short, but, you know, they were short and odd and get right to the point. You know, they weren't all scary, but, you know, there was a number of them that had little dark undertones because I remember being frightened by a few of them. [00:19:00] Speaker A: Sure. [00:19:00] Speaker B: But that was one of my favorite poems. One of my favorite poems that disturbed and creeped me out because there's another line in that poem because the poem's just telling little. The basically that, you know, be good or these things are coming to get you. You know. But it's called Little Orphan Annie by James Whixcomb Riley. Great poem, but it was scary to me. [00:19:21] Speaker A: Yeah, I'll have to look into that. You know, speaking of which, I. I have a question and I have a comment. First off, take this rose, which I believe you closed your, your, your CD with your album with, actually. [00:19:33] Speaker B: Yes, yes. [00:19:34] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. That's song 10. Yeah, yeah. But when I was reading, reading it in the book, I noted that take this rose, it's from death, with her kisses. You know, when you have this like lovely structure of three lines, you know, one short three syllable line and then like one longer line where you know it's from death. Take this rose, it's from Death. The kelpie tricks his riders. Take this Death. It's. Take this rose, it's from Death. She pens a book of horrors. Right. But you don't capitalize death. And is it because. Well, yeah. What were you doing there? Was. Was that intentional? Not to capitalize death. [00:20:09] Speaker B: Not to capitalize death, yeah, because I was just trying to keep kind of like death kind of omnipresent. Just kind of like ambiguous in a way, you know, so to be interpreted whatever way, you know, because death is going to be different, I would think maybe, you know, in a way, death's face is going to be different for everyone. [00:20:32] Speaker A: Okay. And you characterize death here and in a few of the other pieces as female. It's not a constant thing. But is it female here because, well, death is your muse. [00:20:42] Speaker B: Sometimes. Yeah, I would say that's the best way to put it. Sometimes I'm like, okay, death is gonna be a girl in this one, you know? Death isn't gonna be a girl in this one. Yeah, that would probably basically say it. You know, I did a music video for that. That song. [00:20:58] Speaker A: You did a music video for that song? [00:20:59] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:21:01] Speaker A: You know, I think I saw that it's probably open on my other computer still. [00:21:04] Speaker B: And I. It's a black and white one. Where this figure is going, is trying this figure. I guess his death is following the. The guy in the woods singing the song. And there's a guy in a crow thing, you know, so crow mask about. [00:21:22] Speaker A: About this, like, amazing that you've made. It's crazy. [00:21:25] Speaker B: Can you imagine what I can make if I had a few dollars, you know? Yeah, but this is on like a shoestring to no string budget, you know. [00:21:34] Speaker A: You know, you wouldn't know what to look at this because, like, you know, I mean, hey, I self publish. A lot of my writers self publish and you can always tell when a book is self published, but this one I can't even. I'm not even 100% sure, you know. [00:21:45] Speaker B: Well, thank you. Because I definitely, I've been. I very, very would. Akin to the details because I've always kind of. When I publish, because I published CDs before and stuff like that, I just. Because it had to go out with the rest of public, I didn't want it to see. Oh, yeah, this is, you know, this is a fraud or something like that. So. [00:22:06] Speaker A: Well, but that's what I'm saying. Like, I work really hard on that, on that stuff too, because this is my art, this is my life. You know what I mean? So. But not everyone knows what they're doing. [00:22:16] Speaker B: Is that right? No, that's true. [00:22:18] Speaker A: Like. Like when I first opened your CD and look, it's like holographic and beautiful. I mean. Yeah. Like, you know, so, you know, to the point, like, you know, is this like your stuff? Like, are you doing this? Like, obviously, I assume you've hired an editor and stuff, but are you, you know, publishing this on your own or do you answer. [00:22:38] Speaker B: Yes. I have had a magazine called Pestilent Wind Folk Magazine, and I published that. That, that copy of that album you got is Pestilent Wind Folk Records. It's my only imprint. And this book I. I published the first time myself. It's called Pestilent Wind Folk. I don't know, did I just call it Pestilent Windfolk or. [00:22:57] Speaker A: Yeah, I was glancing at it. [00:22:59] Speaker B: Pestilent Winfolk Books. [00:23:01] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:23:02] Speaker B: So I published that and. And I am going to look for a publisher maybe in the future for a bigger audience. But I wanted to. I didn't want people to start messing with, hey, don't put that story in. It's kind of weird. Or, you know, I mean, I wanted to at least let me have out there for record what it really is then, you know, if I get a good enough little publishing company or something wants to put it there, you know, because, you know, then I'll do it. If I found somebody like Charles Bukowski found, you know, if I found one of those Sparrow guys who want to publish, you know, you know, found something like that, you know, I mean, you know, it's a dream for all. All poets and writers, right? [00:23:41] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I reached a point where I was sort of like, look, I'm gonna publish my book and, and start working on my next book. I didn't feel like hunting for an agent and putting myself through that and compromising my art. You know what I mean? And never putting Anything out, you know? [00:23:57] Speaker B: Right, exactly. [00:23:58] Speaker A: Like, it's a lot of work. I mean, you know, but I mean, like. I mean, here's. Here's my first book of poetry. Like, I'm very proud of it. [00:24:04] Speaker B: It's a nice cover. I like it. [00:24:06] Speaker A: It's lovely. It's the World Tree, you know? And like, the girl who did it is very talented. I mean, very proud of it. And, like, I didn't have to compromise or anything. And it. And like, it's a lot of work. You have to put in the work, but you know what I mean? You own your work and it's yours. You know what I mean? [00:24:20] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, exactly. Like an album has a single out of that book. Out of this book. You know, I am going to, like, throw out a few chap books and stuff like that. Like, one. There's one little chat book I'm kind of working on. It's called the Alligator Coat Nether Odd Poems. So. And it's from the poem in there? [00:24:37] Speaker A: Yeah, that. Yeah, that's in here, I'm pretty sure. [00:24:39] Speaker B: Yeah, it's one of my favorite. That's. That's a new poem. That poem was. I wrote last year, so that was. That's one of my favorite new ones. [00:24:48] Speaker A: Okay. Actually, you know what, dude? Yeah, I've had these around all. Where is it? Here it is. Yeah. So this is a chapbook, actually. That's what. [00:24:56] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:24:59] Speaker A: Very cool. Okay. And where do you put. Oh, available now, Lulu and Amazon. Okay, cool. Yeah, I'll make sure to get all your socials, too, on this video once I post it, you know, because I want people to go there, you know? [00:25:12] Speaker B: Yeah, but that flyer is actually just promoting the poem in that book. I know some people are like, I'm not sure, but. [00:25:19] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, but you know what I mean, why not, right? Why the fuck not? You know? Seriously. So where do we want to go next? Oh, yeah, I didn't get to make my very mild point about that piece. Yeah. So we were talking about. Hang on a second. Take this rose. Yeah, yeah. We were talking about, like, fables, Right. And fables are generally there to tell a story or, you know, pass on a moral of some sort. And, like, take this rose that's from death. Blood is so amusing. Right. And then you say, if I should die before I wake, I pray to God my soul don't take. Leave me on this mortal coil so I can blacken the soil so. So I can become the blackened soil. And, like, I took that as, like, obviously there's the. There's the refutation of the Lord's Prayer, which is like, take my soul, whatever. But you're like, no, no, no, no, leave me here. The earth is beautiful with its decay and fecundity. I want to be part of that cycle because it's beautiful. I want to be part of the death cycle, you know, eternally. And like, I thought that was fairly. I thought that was lovely, you know what I mean? Like a lot of the. [00:26:26] Speaker B: Thank you. [00:26:27] Speaker A: A lot of the shock rockers that are running around today, they're so busy fighting their own image and trying to one up each other. Like Marilyn Manson just can't stop like doing the victim, you know, complex thing. Oh my God, they're out to get me. And it's like. What happened to saying things, you know, I don't know. [00:26:45] Speaker B: Well, I think that, yeah, that's definitely an ode to like pagan and witchcraft witches, you know, to believe a druid or witch or something like that, you know, that to become part of the earth, you know, because I mean anybody that practices witches or studies witches, you know, every, every witch has got a, an element that is their strongest suit or soul power that they would say. [00:27:08] Speaker A: You know, so an affinity. Right. [00:27:12] Speaker B: I mean, obviously, I mean, I consider myself a witch at times, but I don't, I don't really. Other than just more folklore wise, you know, I don't really go out there and start, you know, doing spells and stuff like that I have. But I don't really do that stuff much because it just so busy doing this. But in a way, if you understand what witchcraft was about or praying or whatever, whatever you do. Because I mean, the thing is, is it just manifests something to happen, you know, I mean, for instance, the only reason that they would use like, I don't know, burn a candle here, use a, you know, like a crow foot or something. These were symbols to get the mind to focus on something, you know, and because if there's a. All these swirling energies in the world, in the cosmos and they can follow your mind's thoughts, that's all the manifestation stuff, you know, so that's where all that goes into. That's how it came out in the poem. [00:28:07] Speaker A: Yeah, it's very beautiful. Yeah, I like that approach to magic. It's very evocative of Anton lavey. Right. And like the psycho spirituality of like, I don't know, a more rational mind. And I appreciate that. You know, I think that's really cool because at the end of the day, like, we are just our Component elements. Right. And a lot of us lose touch with that, I think. Especially with the, you know, this little ball and chain that we all carry around, you know. [00:28:35] Speaker B: Exactly. You know, how much that thing has been. I mean, we all rely on that so much now. [00:28:41] Speaker A: I mean, insane. Hey, we're talking through it right now, right? [00:28:44] Speaker B: Yeah. You can't. But you can't deny the. The. The, you know, all the things that people are able to accomplish with it, you know? [00:28:51] Speaker A: Absolutely. Yeah. I am not a Luddite, that's for sure. By the way, where. Where did you get your hat? I love it. It is so cool. [00:28:58] Speaker B: This one. This one I actually got down on Melrose. They had a. A place. Aardvarks. You know, it's kind of like a secondhand shop. But nothing on Melrose is secondhand price, believe me. It might look like all used clothes, but they're more expensive than new clothes. [00:29:19] Speaker A: Okay. [00:29:20] Speaker B: But I got it. Got it there. I actually kind of collect hats. I got all kinds of weird hats. [00:29:25] Speaker A: Yeah, hats are pretty great. Hats are pretty great. I mean, I wear this crown when I do death wish stuff, but I have a lot of hats. [00:29:31] Speaker B: Cool. Yeah, I love hats. I love hats. [00:29:34] Speaker A: Yeah. I like to accessorize too, so. All right. So this is your second album with Black Heroine Gallery. [00:29:40] Speaker B: Yeah, that's the second album now. [00:29:42] Speaker A: Okay. And the first album is still available, right? [00:29:45] Speaker B: I don't. On streaming. I don't know if you can still get physical copies of it, though. [00:29:50] Speaker A: Okay. But it's still on. Still on Bandcamp, right? I forgot to check. I keep forgetting. [00:29:54] Speaker B: Yeah, it's on the bandcamp. Yeah. [00:29:56] Speaker A: Okay. And. And what's it called? I'm so sorry. [00:29:58] Speaker B: It's called the Dreadful. The Dreadful Dead of Hoop Snake Hollow. [00:30:03] Speaker A: Okay. [00:30:04] Speaker B: I can't. [00:30:04] Speaker A: I don't know why this is not letting me just go to your page. Okay, well. Okay, so that's still there. And this is. This is what, your first book of poetry? Your first full. [00:30:13] Speaker B: I consider my first book. I. I tried to self publish it twice. They were both different titles. And. And that I would consider my first version. It's almost me. It's almost going to be kind of like the Leaves of Grass, you know, where. Where he did one big book forever. That's what that is basically going to be, you know? Now, of course, if I. If I get hooked up with some publisher that wants me to chop it up or whatever, that's another story. But that's why I decided to go ahead and do like, maybe, you know, 2434 page little. What do you go chat books based on a couple of the poems that are in there and throw in some new stuff along the way to help promote it and stuff like that? [00:30:53] Speaker A: Wow, that's so fascinating. So, okay. [00:30:55] Speaker B: And I'm also doing the ban, which I would sell the books at. And of course, I'm always open to readings. I'm trying to do those. And then I have another band I'm working on, I told Spiders at Gray Ridge. And it's a very surreal, very. It's almost like, I mean, it's all, you know, it's all spoken poetry with music. It's. I don't know, I guess it's close to Throbbing Gristol or Psychic TV meets. Meets. Yeah, that one. Yeah, yeah, meets Skinny Puppy Slash. You know, it's just like I'm gonna. It's just gonna be done with all kinds of weird music, mostly synth stuff, but even in the guitar, you can get stuff that sounds ambient. Cynthia. It's gonna be ambient and it's gonna be just. I don't know how to describe it other than just listen to it. You're like, oh, that's kind of hot. Oh, yeah. Either you hate it, you love it, or, I don't know, in between, you. [00:31:49] Speaker A: Know, it's all about the pedals you get. [00:31:51] Speaker B: Right, right, right. You know, and it's just another, it's another excuse for me to get up there and recite my poetry over some bizarre music that I wrote. [00:31:59] Speaker A: I mean, and that's the best gift of all. Right. I mean, that's the meaning of life right there. Do you tour? Like, do you come to Philly? [00:32:07] Speaker B: You know, we've got offer shows on the east coast before, but the Black Heroine Gallery, I, I've been. Been kind of. We have kind of had a hiatus these last few months because I, I had to find some band, new band members. So looks like as of last week, that I got all my new band members and rehearsals are going to start in a couple weeks and then, then we're going to be out doing shows again here, but we're going to be. We're trying to get out there around the East Coast. I know, I know. We've had people from Philly, New Jersey, New York, ask for us to play out there. So I'm hoping. Never say never. [00:32:44] Speaker A: Never say never. Never say never. [00:32:46] Speaker B: Because, I mean, the scene keeps. Seems to keep getting bigger. Even when it's kind of low or underground. No one's talking about it. There's always somebody doing something in It. So, you know, and, you know, I'm not ready to hang up my hat, so to speak, you know, no pun intended. I'm not ready to hang up my hat yet in. In making music and stuff like that. But it's great that I got music. I mean, it's great that I got poetry, literature, and, you know, an art. Because for some reason I couldn't do the music. At least I can continue to do all that, too. [00:33:16] Speaker A: Yeah, it's no small thing to be able to make art, you know, Like, a lot of people, like, have to work a job in order to do art. And a lot of people, they find that that job eats up all their time, you know, or they have kids and boom, they can't make their art anymore. And I think that, you know, making art is something that we should all strive for no matter what, because at the end of the day, it's one of the best ways to deal with your trauma and your urine and just the existential nightmare that is sometimes being alive. Right. Especially living in exciting times like we do, you know? [00:33:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:33:49] Speaker A: I mean. [00:33:50] Speaker B: Yes. [00:33:52] Speaker A: You're in la, aren't you? [00:33:54] Speaker B: Yep. [00:33:55] Speaker A: National Guard's there, right? [00:33:57] Speaker B: Yeah, just about things about nine miles from me. Yeah, yeah, I'm right there. [00:34:02] Speaker A: Speaking of interesting times. Right. You know, so, yeah, I mean, you know, I'm really big on people making art. I don't care what it is, do it, do it. You know, like, when does your story start? You know what I mean? And the best, best part about that is, you know, you transmute your grief into something cool and you get. Sometimes you get a really cool fucking, you know, goth album out of it, you know? [00:34:23] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. No, I agree with you. You know, I'm actually. I know I'm also one of the biggest fans of this scene. I try to. I try to, like, purchase. If I go out to a show, I'll try to purchase, like, whoever's out there, you know, one of those underground bands, especially if they got vinyl, you know, I'm going to try to buy a copy, you know, because, you know, when I'm like, really super old and just like, I want to be sitting in a log cabin somewhere, you know, and winter, and just have my. My underground collection and just listen to them over and over again. I don't know why, I just like the music, you know, I think I like most of them. All authentic. There's a lot that kind of. Or. I don't want to say poser, because that's kind of mean. I don't mean poser in a bad way. I mean, they just kind of like, predictable, maybe that's a better word sound. I still enjoy it, though. I mean, I still bought those albums, you know. Of course, I'm not going to name names because that's. [00:35:16] Speaker A: Please don't. Cool. [00:35:17] Speaker B: Because it might not be predictable to somebody else, but I've been around long enough to hear the tropes, you know, so. And to hear the music tropes. And anybody that's into that music one. Well, this person sounds like this and this and this. But then again, it doesn't matter. I mean. I mean, how many Basquiat artists are out there? You know, John. John Michel Basquiat, the artist. The famous artist, the one that does all, like, stick kind of things. Not. Not Keith Haring, but the other one that he worked with. Was it Andy Warhol? Yeah. There are so many copycat of that artist. Because when you go through artist stuff, I'm like, oh, my God, another Basquiat. Another Basquiat. But you know what? There's a few. Because, I mean, there's nothing people are going to copy. That's part of it. All right. But I have seen. I've seen a couple artists that you can tell definitely are influenced by Basquiat, but they were finally able to take it, to get their own take on it, which is nice. You know, I'm like, okay, cool. You got basculin fence. I can see that. But. [00:36:23] Speaker A: Yeah, I hear you. I like to say that art is a conversation, but there comes a point where your music isn't doing anything new or different. You know, you're just sorta. You're copying what you like from that other person, and that's great. And. [00:36:37] Speaker B: All right. [00:36:37] Speaker A: Exactly when are you gonna do something? Yeah, I feel that. And I appreciate you not naming any names, because I'd have to cut it. [00:36:43] Speaker B: Because, you know, I wouldn't do that. [00:36:46] Speaker A: I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, you know? [00:36:50] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm the same way, man. It's just like, I love art of all kinds. And even if somebody has something that I think might have been. Is more of a direct take from somebody else, it doesn't. It doesn't devalue their art. So I would never say anything about that at all because it doesn't make a difference, because I still think they're great, you know, great at what they did. But you're right. Yeah, I know that's not my place to decide, you know. You know, whether that's something they should or should not have done. [00:37:15] Speaker A: Yeah. Like, I'm thinking of a few groups I've seen where I'm like, all right, all right. You know, moving along. [00:37:21] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, and you can. You can find those groups in any genre of music, you know. I mean, gosh, just look at the. All the pop divas. They really got a lot of similar. [00:37:30] Speaker A: Sounds, you know, My dad, I don't know what happened to him, but he is obsessed with Taylor Swift. And not just because she's a nice lady, you know, like, he likes her. He likes her music and everything. And I'm like, you know, he's a guy who, you know, he likes his Clutch and his Metallica, and that's about it. [00:37:45] Speaker B: Right. [00:37:46] Speaker A: Taylor Swift is on that Mount Rushmore. For some reason, I really don't understand it, you know, but guess he likes. [00:37:51] Speaker B: You know, like little ballads, you know, where she. They sound like they're dumping and getting them dumped all the time. I don't know. [00:37:58] Speaker A: It's every song. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, everyone needs a hobby, as I like to say, you know? [00:38:03] Speaker B: Yeah. Though a lot of the female characters, I write about those love tragedies and some of those poems, they do more than just run away. Like in the Centaur Prince, she ends up taking him out. [00:38:16] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, then there's the. There's. There's. There's the catfish girl who got eaten by that dead guy, you know? [00:38:22] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, that. And then his sister. Her sister tries to get revenge and. [00:38:28] Speaker A: They get eaten, too. Like, what is this. Is this guy Solomon Grundy? He's just mercking all these. All these fish. [00:38:34] Speaker B: Yeah. He eats everything that's fish in. In that and that. [00:38:38] Speaker A: I like it. I like the. I really love the. The. The. The fish hook imagery because, like, that's such a common. Like. How do I put this? Like, I. I wrote this one poem to this girl I was seeing. It was called the angel with the Hook in Her Lip. And it was about her. It was about her. Her. Her lip ring. But it was really about how, like, we were just stuck together. You know what I mean? And. [00:38:59] Speaker B: Right. [00:39:00] Speaker A: I appreciate the fish hook because, like, to me, this poem was. Yeah. On its face, it's about, you know, some dead monster who keeps eating these fish chicks. But it could also just very simply be a predator who just keeps preying on these women and. [00:39:14] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. With no. Yeah. Kind of like maybe a Michael Myers with no conscience, you know? [00:39:23] Speaker A: Yeah, sure. What did I want to say? What would you. What would you say to people who are like, Thinking about publishing a book or, you know, I don't know. I mean, do you have anything inspirational. [00:39:36] Speaker B: To say about publishing a book? I would say, I think there's a, there is a mistake that some poets make that is publishing too early. I think, I'm not saying wait for years or anything like that, but just, you know, I would write it, rewrite it, and then, then read it, record it, read it to yourself, and then listen to it back. And then after that. Yeah, if you have to, don't, don't wait. Don't wait forever. Self publish it and then just get out and start doing readings, you know? [00:40:05] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, definitely. Do you, you know, do you workshop personally? Like, do you, you know, do you do that? Do you go through that process? [00:40:12] Speaker B: No, I haven't done, I haven't done any workshops and stuff like that, but I, I've, I've listened to a few of them. [00:40:19] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah, because it's, it's, it's my, it's my opinion that, like, the writer is generally the worst judge of their own work, but honestly, everyone's process is very different, so. [00:40:30] Speaker B: No, I, I agree with that. I mean, that's what I mean. What I personally do is I, after I've written a poem, I, I, I, I'll record it and then I'll listen it back to it, you know, through the day, just like I do with my songs. Because I always listen to the song over and over and over again, and I listen to it, and a lot of times I always find something that, that I want to change, you know, and that's, that's kind of how I kind of self edit some of the stuff by listening to it back. [00:40:56] Speaker A: Sure. Yeah, that makes sense. So, right, so right now you have the two. You have the two albums. You have. What's the name of the first one? I'm so sorry? What's the name of the first one? [00:41:08] Speaker B: The Dreadful Dead of Hoop Snake Hollow. It's kind of a long title. [00:41:11] Speaker A: It is, yeah. The Dreadful, Dreadful Snake of Hoop Snake Hollow. [00:41:17] Speaker B: No, The Dreadful Dead of Hoop Snake Hollow. [00:41:20] Speaker A: The Dreadful Dead of Hoop Snake Hollow. Yeah, yeah, we'll cut all that. And of course, the Feast of Bats, which I have here. This is the only one you can get physical right now. Right, right. Yeah. And I do recommend it. I think it's incredible. I'll check out the first album, too. That's available digitally on Bandcamp. [00:41:38] Speaker B: Anywhere else, I think the album. Well, it's available almost everywhere to stream. [00:41:44] Speaker A: Okay, got it. [00:41:45] Speaker B: Yeah. But the physical, the physical is Just for me at the moment, although we have been picked up by another. A European label that's supposed to be re releasing that album and hopefully vinyl as well. [00:41:58] Speaker A: That was going to be my next question. [00:42:00] Speaker B: Yes, so we're hoping. I mean that's, that's the plan of that label, but they're, they've definitely got a number of projects before ours comes up, so. But yeah, and like I said, I'm working on new material, so hopefully that label's still going to take the new stuff too. Yeah. So there is an EP I'm trying to get done by the fall sometime to release it because the album I've already kind of thrown out there, what it's called My Uncanny Valley and it's. I already got the artwork and everything done of that album and that's something that's not going to come out till like next year. So. But, but I didn't want to wait that long to start putting new material. So that's why I decided to take some of that stuff and get this EP out, you know, toward the end of the year here. [00:42:46] Speaker A: Okay, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. Okay, so do you have a website where people can go to see all the things that are currently available and like, is there a specific website we should be directing people to? [00:42:59] Speaker B: Well, right now. That's a good question. Well, it's my Facebook, I guess, the projects you're talking about. I mean, because I have a page for the Black Heroine Gallery and I have it on Facebook and I got a page for. What is it called? I mean, I got a website for the art because it's being sold. It's being sold. And I got a. You know, I got the band camp and I've got the Instagram for both my art for this one. I consider this Instagram is where I do most of my poetry posts. And then I have that one for the band. I mean, God, sorry, Black Heroin Gallery. And of course I'm gonna have another one for that new project, but I haven't put that up yet. [00:43:38] Speaker A: Okay, I got you. So you have an Instagram for Black Heroin Gallery and an Instagram for your, your poetry posts, which. [00:43:46] Speaker B: Yeah, and they're also in the book. If you have the book still. [00:43:49] Speaker A: I mean, they're in the book. Okay, no problem. Yeah, that's right. I did see them. I don't know why I didn't remember. They are, they're right here. They're. They're on, they're on your little, you know, your. [00:43:58] Speaker B: Yeah, the credit page. [00:44:00] Speaker A: Yeah, I Got you. I'll cut all that. Okay. Yeah. So, yeah, check out, check out IA Ho's Instagram. Instagrams. They're in the description. And also right here. I'll put them later. Cool. So is there anything else that we should know about? Obviously you're going to re. Release this book with more content and you're going to continue to do that, much as Mr. Whitman did with Leaves of Grass. [00:44:22] Speaker B: Yes. [00:44:23] Speaker A: And of course you're working on another musical project which we've talked about a few times. Spiders of Gray Ridge. [00:44:30] Speaker B: Yes. [00:44:32] Speaker A: Right. [00:44:33] Speaker B: Well, yeah, that was my initial plan. It might. It might need a little bit more development, so it might get something here by the fall or it might be sometime in the spring of next year. [00:44:43] Speaker A: Okay. It'll release when it's ready. Yeah, yeah. [00:44:46] Speaker B: The demos that I'm putting together, I'm really liking them. But you know, but you know, I. I've got so many. I mean, let's put it this way, I'm kind of a gearhead sometimes and I just found some new sense. I'm like, oh man, maybe I'm gonna put some of that on, you know. Yeah. So. But yeah, no, it's not gonna be too much long because I'm actually, at first I was gonna probably just do it studio wise, you know, make it a studio thing. But you know, I think it really be kind of impressive, at least odd to bring it live. So I'm kind of trying to recruit some really weird musicians. And by what I mean by weird, I mean I gotta have people that. First of all, because I might not use a lot of drums in it. So it's gonna have really crazy stuff going on. It. Drums. There's only so many ways. Don't get me wrong, there's thousands of different patterns for drums, but there's a limitation with some of the drumming. So I wanted something that. Lack of a better word, just noise or just dark. Whatever. Dark noise with the poems and everything. [00:45:44] Speaker A: You want it to be ambient and moody. [00:45:46] Speaker B: I want it, yeah. But I. But. But also gritty, you know, and in parts melodic, you know, it's almost like a cornucopia of just dark sounds. [00:45:56] Speaker A: So not just distortion, but also some of that beautiful rhythm guitar. [00:46:00] Speaker B: Right, right, like that. Or just moments of drums and just downright, you know, maybe the. The tinkering of bells in an empty space and then back into some. Just. You gotta hear. It's gonna be just bizarre. [00:46:14] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:46:15] Speaker B: With. With the poems. [00:46:17] Speaker A: Yes. Have you listened to Devil Doll? [00:46:19] Speaker B: That sounds kind of familiar. [00:46:20] Speaker A: Probably it was a weird musical project by some guy who went by Mr. [00:46:25] Speaker B: Okay. No, it sounds weird. Sounds, sounds very. The name sounds interesting. [00:46:31] Speaker A: Or I've heard it before, I think so. I think his one big album was the Conqueror Worm. And it's a lot of spoken word and just weird, weird, divert musical diversions and like, you know, melodic poetry, singing, just crazy stuff. And it all culminates in him reading the last stanza of, you know, Edgar Allan Poe's the Conqueror Worm. [00:46:54] Speaker B: Wow, cool. [00:46:55] Speaker A: It's good stuff. But that's what, that's what your description makes me, puts me in mind of that project in particular, you know, which was also something I listened to a lot. Not just when I was a teenager, but I go back to it, much like I do with astro vamps. You know, speaking of which, they. You know, it's funny, I still have my old musical collection that was on my ipod and now it's just on my phone because, you know, I just keep dumping the files onto new computers through the years. [00:47:19] Speaker B: Okay, so. [00:47:21] Speaker A: Alright, yeah, so we know what you're doing now. We know what's next on the horizon. Is there anything else you want to leave us with? Anything else you want to talk about while we're here? [00:47:31] Speaker B: I don't know. I guess that's it. I mean, I will just say I definitely love poetry. Always have and always continue to write it. [00:47:39] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, you know, from where I'm sitting, you're a musician, but. You're a musician, you're an artist. Well, you're an illustrator, you're a painter. But I think that, you know, much like myself, I think you seem to be a poet first and you know, I love that we have that in common because you're easily one of my, you know, you're one of my many, many heroes and I think that's really cool. [00:48:00] Speaker B: Thank you. Yeah, well, I'll agree with you. Thank you. I agree with you on the poet first thing, because everything that. All my ideals came from a poem I wrote. You know, they've evolved. They usually start as some kind of poem or poem that I started. Okay, so I agree with that. It's poetry first and then I turn it into music or art. [00:48:19] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah. I mean, you know, it's a solitary art sometimes, but. Yeah. [00:48:23] Speaker B: Oh yeah, one last thing. I do have a short film that I did. I did a couple, but the one that I put up was called A Jar, A Lizard and a Killer. It's a silent short film. [00:48:35] Speaker A: Okay, and where can we. [00:48:36] Speaker B: It's on YouTube. [00:48:37] Speaker A: It's on YouTube. Okay. [00:48:39] Speaker B: And that came from a poem. A poem I was working on. [00:48:42] Speaker A: Very cool. Okay. [00:48:44] Speaker B: Okay. [00:48:44] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, I'll see if I can grab the link. I'm sure it's right on YouTube, and I'll. I'll add it to the video. [00:48:49] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:48:49] Speaker A: Yeah. Wonderful. Yeah. So. Iejo December. Joseph. Check out Feast of Bats from his band, Black Heroine Gallery. Buy and please read One death, one box, one fable. You know? Sold at Links in Description, Amazon, Lulu, wherever you're gonna buy your books. And be on the lookout for spiders of Grey Ridge. I'm sure it'll be phenomenal. [00:49:14] Speaker B: Go. [00:49:16] Speaker A: Yeah, man. Write poetry. Make art. Love your fucking demons. Ave Satan. [00:50:50] Speaker B: Sa.